A new member

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John Shuuttleworth John Shuuttleworth
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A new member

Hi,

I'm John Shuttleworth  from Marple Bridge near Stockport a member of the Northwest Branch of AYRS and a long standing member of the Open Canoe Sailing Group.

My interests are in small sailing craft presently canoes of various types mainly somewhat experimental or the unusual.  What drew me to the HBBR was my resurgence of interest in Yuloh's (Chinese Sculling Oars) of which there is very little detailed information around.  A few years ago I tried a small dinghy with a foot powered  Yuloh at Beale Park Boat Show and was very impressed with it's performance but didn't pursue it at the time. Chris Waites name was mentioned  regarding this and I've attempted to contact him via your site.

Your forum looks very interesting for inspiration or other projects and I'll watch with interest.
Should anyone have knowledge of this dinghy with the yuloh it could be of great help to me in understanding and attempting to develop them.

In anticipation,

Regards     John Shuttleworh  
Alan Alan
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Re: A new member

Welcome, John. One of my old Woodenboat magazines has an article about yulohs; if I can ever find it I'll post an extract or PM something to you. I'm often sketching "high-tech" versions of the pedalled yuloh, fishtail types, Mirage drive types etc. It'll be a real trick to make one which is reversible but I'm sure it is possible.
Port-Na-Storm Port-Na-Storm
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Re: A new member

Hi John,
Welcome to HBBR. You have arrived at the correct place if you are looking for Chris Waite and his amazing PedYuloh. I've no doubt Chris will be along to entertain and enlighten us soon but in the mean time here is a short film of the early development stages.
Viewers of a nervous disposition may wish to turn the volume down.



http://youtu.be/nPo3qrVOp5w

Regards Graham
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: A new member

I've just pressed 'send' on a long,

Long email to John.  He may well be reeling for some time yet....

CW
John Shuuttleworth John Shuuttleworth
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RE: A new member

In reply to this post by Alan
What have I done?       I simply posted a casual enquiry about Yulohs and seem to have stuck a stick into dozing hornets nest. Fortunately the tablets are now taking effect l have composure now and I'm now not swapping boatbuilding for knitting  as Lynne suggested as an alternative hobby.

Many thanks for the responses Alan, Graham and Chris, I find I'll just be scratching the surface with my technical input but nonetheless will plod on undaunted with help being appreciated from HBBR.

Very interesting articles and links you've provided, they've  filled some of the gaps I had but equally they've dug a few more.  My main query now if this:- 
 
What does a yuloh do that a sculling oar doesn't?  So far it seems that  a yuloh is just a sculling oar with Attitude.
i.e.  The tether, the fixed pivot and it's position along the loom control the angle of vertical swing and also the pitch and sweep of the sweep of the blade.   If that's so, I don't think it's bad for starters. It loses the need for skill in the operator and it uses all the main power just to propel.  Am I close?

I've found the Wooden boat article thanks, and you've confirmed that curved looms don't seem necessary, a crank on the end has the same effect as the blade doesn't care what goes on between the ends.  I now also realise thanks that a curve between blade and pivot is the cause of the dead space at the end of my lashup models sweeps when the Yuloh twizzes round to start the reverse stroke. The need to turn the blade manually I'd missed out on before.

All the above should give me lots of food for thought over Christmas if it's not hectic as usual  but any more feedback would be appreciated on the subject

I am a novice with forums and only learn I.T. on a need to know basis so please bear with me if I make a mess of it.

Oh just before I go, I'll risk asking another request!
As it's difficult getting canoes down my drive past a folding caravan I was thinking of making a lash up boat for trials with light weight being must.  At last weekends NW AYRS  (Amateur Yacht Research Society) meeting I saw photographs of a members  prototype made with Corex or Coroplast.  It's the double skinned ribbed polyurathene sheet that has interested our group for some time.  It's used by estate agents for their For Sale signs you may know it, it's light,strong  durable and cheap, all very commendable  but is the very devil to stick being poly u'.  

Dare I ask if anyone knows much about it for boatbuilding and how to effectively and reliably glue it.  lt looks ideal for canoes and small knockabouts.

Thanks again for the welcome and hope you all have a good Christmas

Regards  John Shuttleworth.


e: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 10:58:21 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: A new member

Welcome, John. One of my old Woodenboat magazines has an article about yulohs; if I can ever find it I'll post an extract or PM something to you. I'm often sketching "high-tech" versions of the pedalled yuloh, fishtail types, Mirage drive types etc. It'll be a real trick to make one which is reversible but I'm sure it is possible.


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Timmo Timmo
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Re: A new member

Hi John

Like the idea of Coroplast boats. Most authoritative website I know on the subject of gluing/taping/joining the stuff is: 

http://www.christinedemerchant.com/coroplast-scoring-cutting-gluing.html

Also some interesting boat designs on the pages around that one.

Don't mind the hornets! The fun of building and playing with boats is the variety of types, methods and options and appearing to get heated as we debate each is all part of that fun. Keep stirring the stick, gives some of us somethng to get excited about.

Tim.

On 19 Dec 2014, at 11:59, John Shuuttleworth [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

What have I done?       I simply posted a casual enquiry about and seem to have stuck a stick into dozing hornets nest. Fortunately the tablets are now taking effect l have composure now and I'm now not swapping boatbuilding for knitting  as Lynne suggested as an alternative hobby.

Many thanks for the responses Alan, Graham and Chris, I find I'll just be scratching the surface with my technical input but nonetheless will plod on undaunted with help being appreciated from HBBR.

Very interesting articles and links you've provided, they've  filled some of the gaps I had but equally they've dug a few more.  My main query now if this:- 
 
What does a yuloh do that a sculling oar doesn't?  So far it seems that  a yuloh is just a sculling oar with Attitude.
i.e.  The tether, the fixed pivot and it's position along the loom control the angle of vertical swing and also the pitch and sweep of the sweep of the blade.   If that's so, I don't think it's bad for starters. It loses the need for skill in the operator and it uses all the main power just to propel.  Am I close?

I've found the Wooden boat article thanks, and you've confirmed that curved looms don't seem necessary, a crank on the end has the same effect as the blade doesn't care what goes on between the ends.  I now also realise thanks that a curve between blade and pivot is the cause of the dead space at the end of my lashup models sweeps when the Yuloh twizzes round to start the reverse stroke. The need to turn the blade manually I'd missed out on before.

All the above should give me lots of food for thought over Christmas if it's not hectic as usual  but any more feedback would be appreciated on the subject

I am a novice with forums and only learn I.T. on a need to know basis so please bear with me if I make a mess of it.

Oh just before I go, I'll risk asking another request!
As it's difficult getting canoes down my drive past a folding caravan I was thinking of making a lash up boat for trials with light weight being must.  At last weekends NW AYRS  (Amateur Yacht Research Society) meeting I saw photographs of a members  prototype made with Corex or Coroplast.  It's the double skinned ribbed polyurathene sheet that has interested our group for some time.  It's used by estate agents for their For Sale signs you may know it, it's light,strong  durable and cheap, all very commendable  but is the very devil to stick being poly u'.  

Dare I ask if anyone knows much about it for boatbuilding and how to effectively and reliably glue it.  lt looks ideal for canoes and small knockabouts.

Thanks again for the welcome and hope you all have a good Christmas

Regards  John Shuttleworth.


e: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 10:58:21 -0700
From: <a href="x-msg://65/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=4028109&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external" class="">[hidden email]
To: <a href="x-msg://65/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=4028109&amp;i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external" class="">[hidden email]
Subject: Re: A new member

Welcome, John. One of my old Woodenboat magazines has an article about yulohs; if I can ever find it I'll post an extract or PM something to you. I'm often sketching "high-tech" versions of the pedalled yuloh, fishtail types, Mirage drive types etc. It'll be a real trick to make one which is reversible but I'm sure it is possible.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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NAML



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John Shuuttleworth John Shuuttleworth
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RE: A new member

Thanks Tim for the info.
Christinedemerchant's site I've I had  found and it does seem to be the best info so far thanks, it's very early days for me though and finding spare time to do my own things is always a problem.  I should go back to work I had more free time then!

I'm getting the gist of how your members operate so I can now stop pretending that I know what I'm talking about and plod on as usual.

Back onto  the coroplast. The sign maker I visited had some 8mm sheet, that looked the bees knees for boat building opposed to the normal 4mm.  It's a lot tougher and would need less ribs and framing than the 4 but alas more expensive. A simple 12 footish canoe with few chines and gentle curves would be ideal for me if anyone sees anything that lends itself to that. Otherwise it's back to a the drawing board or should I say fag packet and some models.

John
  

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 05:27:59 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: A new member

Hi John

Like the idea of Coroplast boats. Most authoritative website I know on the subject of gluing/taping/joining the stuff is: 

http://www.christinedemerchant.com/coroplast-scoring-cutting-gluing.html

Also some interesting boat designs on the pages around that one.

Don't mind the hornets! The fun of building and playing with boats is the variety of types, methods and options and appearing to get heated as we debate each is all part of that fun. Keep stirring the stick, gives some of us somethng to get excited about.

Tim.

On 19 Dec 2014, at 11:59, John Shuuttleworth [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

What have I done?       I simply posted a casual enquiry about and seem to have stuck a stick into dozing hornets nest. Fortunately the tablets are now taking effect l have composure now and I'm now not swapping boatbuilding for knitting  as Lynne suggested as an alternative hobby.

Many thanks for the responses Alan, Graham and Chris, I find I'll just be scratching the surface with my technical input but nonetheless will plod on undaunted with help being appreciated from HBBR.

Very interesting articles and links you've provided, they've  filled some of the gaps I had but equally they've dug a few more.  My main query now if this:- 
 
What does a yuloh do that a sculling oar doesn't?  So far it seems that  a yuloh is just a sculling oar with Attitude.
i.e.  The tether, the fixed pivot and it's position along the loom control the angle of vertical swing and also the pitch and sweep of the sweep of the blade.   If that's so, I don't think it's bad for starters. It loses the need for skill in the operator and it uses all the main power just to propel.  Am I close?

I've found the Wooden boat article thanks, and you've confirmed that curved looms don't seem necessary, a crank on the end has the same effect as the blade doesn't care what goes on between the ends.  I now also realise thanks that a curve between blade and pivot is the cause of the dead space at the end of my lashup models sweeps when the Yuloh twizzes round to start the reverse stroke. The need to turn the blade manually I'd missed out on before.

All the above should give me lots of food for thought over Christmas if it's not hectic as usual  but any more feedback would be appreciated on the subject

I am a novice with forums and only learn I.T. on a need to know basis so please bear with me if I make a mess of it.

Oh just before I go, I'll risk asking another request!
As it's difficult getting canoes down my drive past a folding caravan I was thinking of making a lash up boat for trials with light weight being must.  At last weekends NW AYRS  (Amateur Yacht Research Society) meeting I saw photographs of a members  prototype made with Corex or Coroplast.  It's the double skinned ribbed polyurathene sheet that has interested our group for some time.  It's used by estate agents for their For Sale signs you may know it, it's light,strong  durable and cheap, all very commendable  but is the very devil to stick being poly u'.  

Dare I ask if anyone knows much about it for boatbuilding and how to effectively and reliably glue it.  lt looks ideal for canoes and small knockabouts.

Thanks again for the welcome and hope you all have a good Christmas

Regards  John Shuttleworth.


e: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 10:58:21 -0700
From: <a href="x-msg://65/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=4028109&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external">[hidden email]
To: <a href="x-msg://65/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=4028109&amp;i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external">[hidden email]
Subject: Re: A new member

Welcome, John. One of my old Woodenboat magazines has an article about yulohs; if I can ever find it I'll post an extract or PM something to you. I'm often sketching "high-tech" versions of the pedalled yuloh, fishtail types, Mirage drive types etc. It'll be a real trick to make one which is reversible but I'm sure it is possible.


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NAML



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Chris Waite Chris Waite
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RE: A new member

In reply to this post by John Shuuttleworth
Just very quickly (Oh yes?), John

You're about right; the yuloh has two massive advantages -

1.  The tether stops the blade diving under the boat as the pressure comes on at each stroke, so you don't have to keep holding the handle down while you scull.

2.  The crank, and you're right that is all that it is, means that it self-cocks and the peg in a hole (or equivalent) sets the angle of attack, so you don't have to learn or employ any wrist action.

All the problems of Western sculling solved - very natty.

One thing you didn't indicate; are you reckoning on hand propulsion, or will you be pedalling?

If the answer is pedalling, then you need a transom, or some sort of frame, to locate the turning blocks that lead the lines from the handle to the pedals.

Incidentally, was it my boat you tried at Beale?

Chris W
simplesimon simplesimon
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RE: A new member

In reply to this post by John Shuuttleworth
John,

You wrote:
John Shuuttleworth wrote
My main query now if this:-  What does a yuloh do that a sculling oar doesn't?  So far it seems that  a yuloh is just a sculling oar with Attitude.
Amongst other things it's a matter of angle of attack, and what happens when the device reverses stroke.

A sculling oar (leastways when I do it ) keeps the same edge forward all the time, so when reversing it "tacks". A purpose-designed sculling oar (like a fish-tail) could have a conventional airfoil section, of necessity a zero-camber one.

A yuloh "shunts" i.e. the old trailing edge becomes the new leading edge and vice versa. So it can use a cambered foil to get lift (but might need one of Tom Speer's reversible sections to be efficient)

As a result, a yuloh is very good at shifting heavy loads, but less effective at high speeds.

YMMV

Simon
Alan Alan
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RE: A new member

Here is a link to a product which will activate low energy plastics and claims to work on polypropylene (i.e. correx):
http://www.shop4glue.com/plastic-primer-for-hard-to-adhere-plastics-such-as-polyethylene-etc--5ml-29-p.asp
You could try this with a rubberised cyano. I've used their products but not this primer. You could also try it with CT-1, a builders adhesive/filler (see Watercraft 108) which I've used with GRP and wood but again I've not tried it on PP with an activator, but if it works it would be a lot cheaper than rubberised cyano and activator.
Estate agents signs are often found lying in front gardens so there is your cheap source for experimenting...
mike160304 mike160304
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Re: A new member

In reply to this post by John Shuuttleworth
Hi John, I'm newish here too. I phoned you once and we had a long conversation about your intriguing Shorn one-sheet 8-foot sailing canoe. Your comment that you take Shorn on your cartop, rather than a longer canoe, when you want to be able to open your hatchback fully, became a main reason why I am now building a Surf 8' Selway Fisher dinghy (see thread under General Discussions).
I look forward to reading your contributions here.
Regards,
Mike
John Shuuttleworth John Shuuttleworth
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Re: A new member

Hi to all,  

I'm not sure how to drive your forum hence not sure where this will appear on it but here goes.
Thanks Mike, it;'s good to be in touch again, your dinghy looks very interesting.
Chris,  My idea is for pedal power ideally from a canoe stern with brackets but also to consider the yuloh outboard on the starboard side to be driven by leaning in to and away from it from a sitting position.

 
Thanks to all for your responses to my initial enquiry,lots of food for thought but Chritmas pressures prevent me working on them or responing fully just now.
I'll be back !

Best wishes    John S.