Fuel Efficient Tow Car?

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Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Fuel Efficient Tow Car?

This post was updated on .
Mondy has done a healthy 331K miles over 13 years but sprung yet-another brake pipe leak at the rear right. That's bad timing as her MOT is due tomorrow so I gingerly drove up to the garage only to find complete brake failure 100 yards up the road.....so she's back home because failure was guaranteed then she'd be impounded and how on earth would I get the permanent boating junk home?

Replacing a rear brake pipe was expensive as the fuel tank had to be dropped. Also the discs might need replacing, probably a wheel cylinder also, she leaks oil/water, MOT chappy finds a rusty patch everytime and Cee Dubs knows the anti-roll bar links are knackered....

So I'll have a look at the weekend and if its too difficult for me to fix the brakes she's heading for the crusher!

That does bugger up Barton/Beale plans so the contingency is a towbar for Dily's car. Which brings me to the question: does anyone have an efficient diesel car to sell, ideally 60+mpg?

Also my daughter might need a small car in September which I could drive until then, so does anyone have a small car for sale, hopefully with a towbar?

cheers
Paul

Three wheels on my wagon, but I'm still rolling along.....
Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Tow Car?

A local dealer has a nice 04 Peugeot 206 diesel SW (Station Wagon aka estate) which would be ideal for boating junk and towing.

2.0L, 90 bhp. 68mpg on the extra-urban cycle which means it could pay for itself in 3 years, compared to 42mpg for Mondy.

I know a few of you have estates, has anybody used a 206 estate?

cheers
Paul
Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
Timmo Timmo
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Re: Tow Car?

My son has a 206. Great car, but parts are expensive compared to a Ford.

Tim.

From: "adminHBBR [via UK HBBR Forum]" <[hidden email]>

I know a few of you have estates, has anybody used a 206 estate? 

cheers
Paul
Jeremy Jeremy
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Re: Tow Car?

In reply to this post by Paul (admin)
I've not owned a 206 estate, but have owned three Peugeot diesels over the years, plus my wife currently has a Citroen diesel (same engines).  What I can say with confidence is that the engines are stunningly reliable and very fuel efficient.  My wife's Citroen does a steady 60+mpg, even on her relatively short (around 6 miles each way) commute.

Most of the time her car's fuel economy beats that of my Prius by a small margin.

Jeremy
alopenboat alopenboat
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Re: Tow Car?

In reply to this post by Paul (admin)
I have the 306 estate which is a good tow car. My next door neighbour
has a 206 and is determined to keep it until it falls to pieces.


On 12 May 2011 at 14:34, adminHBBR [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote:

>
>
> A local dealer has a nice 04 Peugeot 206 diesel SW (Station Wagon aka
> estate) which would be ideal for boating junk and towing.
>
> 2.0L, 90 bhp. 68mpg on the extra-urban cycle which means it could pay
> for itself in 3 years, compared to 42mpg for Mondy.
>
> I know a few of you have estates, has anybody used a 206 estate?
>
> cheers
> Paul
>
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--
Hoping for calm nights

Alastair Law,      
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>          

Anders Anders
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Re: Tow Car?

In reply to this post by Jeremy
If its a HDI, then its a nice engine. smooth and quiet with a very good torque
BUT its a very big and heavy engine in a small car. Take a carefull look at front suspension and direction.
My wife has a 206 1,4 HDI (75hp) and its a VERY nice engine in an ok car. I dont know Gallons and miles very well, but it runs some 20 - 22km on a liter of diesel.
Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Tow Car?

Anders wrote
If its a HDI, then its a nice engine. smooth and quiet with a very good torque
BUT its a very big and heavy engine in a small car. Take a carefull look at front suspension and direction.
My wife has a 206 1,4 HDI (75hp) and its a VERY nice engine in an ok car. I dont know Gallons and miles very well, but it runs some 20 - 22km on a liter of diesel.
Anders,
That's a good point about the weight, plus a 1.4 will be smaller and easier to work on and another forum said it was more economical. The 1.4 HDI is a popular engine also fitted to Citroen and Ford cars, so its top of my list.

22km/l is 63 mpg.

-Paul
Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
Timmo Timmo
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Re: Tow Car?

My son's 206 is the 2 litre. As an engine it is really not working very hard and it would have tons in reserve for towing, I think that might be a factor in it's considerable reliability and economy. A smaller engine will be working much harder to achieve the same performance.

Also, with a small car and smaller engine just watch the kerb weight doesn't drop too low for towing a fully loaded and ballasted boat. Even on a braked trailer there are weight ratios to observe.

On the other hand 2 litres does push up insurance a little and, as Anders says, might mean more expense maintaining front running gear. The parts my son finds expensive are front brake pads! But that might be his driving (lots of winding country roads between home and college.)

Tim.

From: "adminHBBR [via UK HBBR Forum]" <[hidden email]>
Anders wrote:
If its a HDI, then its a nice engine. smooth and quiet with a very good torque
BUT its a very big and heavy engine in a small car. 
Anders,
That's a good point about the weight, plus a 1.4 will be smaller and easier to work on 

-Paul

Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Tow Car?

Timmo wrote
Also, with a small car and smaller engine just watch the kerb weight doesn't
drop too low for towing a fully loaded and ballasted boat. Even on a braked
trailer there are weight ratios to observe.
Small cars weigh at least 1000kg, MilliBee plus trailer is about 350kg which is well within the weight ratios. Dily's Corsa has a gross train weight limit of 2300kg.

My daughter had a 1.9L diesel 206...until she wrote it off on black ice in January. Its a shame as I was going to buy it off her for commuting as I liked driving it.

-Paul
Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
Anders Anders
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Re: Tow Car?

With the 206 1.4HDI  we´ve been towing a small caravan (Eriba Touring family) without problems at all. Easily outrunning the lorrys on the motorhighway and driving on small VERY curvy mountain roads in south Spain.

Its a very good engine. Very well balanced and you never feel the turbo. The only thing that I´m not so fond of is that you can feel its only a 1.4L and it makes it a lot more nervous (and cheaper) than a 2.0L when driving in the city. It needs some revs to work and since its a diesel you cannot rev it very much, so you have to work with the gears quite a lot.

The rest of the car (standard 5 door, not estate)... Its well build, but its not my taste. there´s not to much space behind and the rear seats are for small people only. To me its a typical kids or womans car. (And I´m a macho )

For a boat like yours, my 25 years old Mercedes 190D would serve very well. Thats a true (slow) macho car.

simplesimon simplesimon
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Re: Tow Car?

If you have a chance to test it with a tow-load, take it. Otherwise road-test in high gear and low revs.

Focus diesels have very odd behaviour at low revs. Just when you would expect to get high torque to move off, they cut out and stall.

What seems to be happening is that when the revs fall below about 600 rpm, the engine management system intervenes and cuts the engine. Most annoying.
In that respect, my old petrol cavalier was a better tow-car.

Simon
Mark Harvey Mark Harvey
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Re: Tow Car?

In reply to this post by alopenboat
If buying a peugeot check that to see if it has a dual mass flywheel fitted they fall apart all by themselves without the added stress of towing!
Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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In reply to this post by Anders
Anders wrote
With the 206 1.4HDI  we´ve been towing a small caravan (Eriba Touring family) without problems at all. Easily outrunning the lorrys on the motorhighway and driving on small VERY curvy mountain roads in south Spain.

Its a very good engine. Very well balanced and you never feel the turbo
That's excellent feedback Anders - thank you.

The smallest Eriba weighs about 680kg almost double MilliBee, so the 1.4 HDI suits me perfectly because few extra MPG will save a lot on my long commute to work.

Warning: Big beast engines are like dinosaurs, when oil starts to run out (this decade) fuel prices will go through the roof!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

-Paul
Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
Jeremy Jeremy
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My wife's car has the 1.4HHDI engine and it really is outstandingly good, as I mentioned before.  Provided the rest of the car is in good condition I don't think you could go far wrong with one of these.

The other benefit may be reduced road tax.  I have a feeling that my wife pays around £35 a year for her 1.4HDI powered Citroen, due to the low CO2 emissions.

Jeremy
momist momist
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In reply to this post by Paul (admin)
>Warning: Big beast engines are like dinosaurs, when oil starts to run out (this decade) fuel prices will go through the roof!

Wow, another believer!  I've been following the development of peak oil for the last five years, and rarely met anyone who understands what I'm banging on about.  It's NOT really about running out, but about demand exceeding supply.  New discoveries have not matched increases in consumption since the late 60's, and all current fields are depleting.

For towing with, modern smallish diesels are the way to go.  Diesel will always be available (as it is involved in transporting everything we eat, and use), but the price will spiral out of reach and we will just have to reduce our use according to our means.  Meanwhile, the Prius and the Nissan Leaf are currently in short supply - I wonder why?

Ian
Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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momist wrote
>Warning: Big beast engines are like dinosaurs, when oil starts to run out (this decade) fuel prices will go through the roof!

Wow, another believer!  I've been following the development of peak oil for the last five years, and rarely met anyone who understands what I'm banging on about.  It's NOT really about running out, but about demand exceeding supply.  New discoveries have not matched increases in consumption since the late 60's, and all current fields are depleting.

For towing with, modern smallish diesels are the way to go.  Diesel will always be available (as it is involved in transporting everything we eat, and use), but the price will spiral out of reach and we will just have to reduce our use according to our means.  Meanwhile, the Prius and the Nissan Leaf are currently in short supply - I wonder why?
Ian - I'm a moderator on the Navitron forum and a good friend of one of the Directors - they sell solar panels, wind turbines and such like. Peak oil, solar/wind energy and home grown food are well discussed on the forum.

Luckily I'll be retired by 2024 (furthest peak oil prediction) and won't need any silly commuting. Just like Jeremy my back-up plan is an electric bike because it needs less than 1kWh each day and a few PV panels on the roof can generate that much power.
Entertainment will of course be wind powered (sailing) and some healthy rowing - so we'll move to cycling distance from the water. If I get a bit wobbly in my 80s I'll be on a 3 wheeler because you can't fall off them

-Paul
Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
Jeremy Jeremy
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adminHBBR wrote
Ian - I'm a moderator on the Navitron forum and a good friend of one of the Directors - they sell solar panels, wind turbines and such like. Peak oil, solar/wind energy and home grown food are well discussed on the forum.

Luckily I'll be retired by 2024 (furthest peak oil prediction) and won't need any silly commuting. Just like Jeremy my back-up plan is an electric bike because it needs less than 1kWh each day and a few PV panels on the roof can generate that much power.
Entertainment will of course be wind powered (sailing) and some healthy rowing - so we'll move to cycling distance from the water. If I get a bit wobbly in my 80s I'll be on a 3 wheeler because you can't fall off them

-Paul
Interesting, Paul.  My new build has a south facing pitched roof, so I'm planning on using solar hot water plus photovoltaics to charge a battery pack for the low voltage LED house lighting, but the same battery pack could also be used to charge the electric bikes.  I've been riding electric bikes for a few years now and bought my first Prius hybrid in 2005 (I'm now on my second one).

Relaxation for me will be boating on the Wye, about 3/4 mile from the new house, although given the shallow water in parts of the Wye I will probably have to adapt the relatively deep draft solar powered electric drive on the "big" boat.  

Jeremy
alopenboat alopenboat
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On 19 May 2011 at 23:19, Jeremy [via UK HBBR Forum] wrote:

>
> Interesting, Paul.  My new build has a south facing pitched roof, so
> I'm planning on using solar hot water plus photovoltaics to charge a
> battery pack for the low voltage LED house lighting, but the same
> battery pack could also be used to charge the electric bikes.  I've
> been riding electric bikes for a few years now and bought my first
> Prius hybrid in 2005 (I'm now on my second one).
>

Can the Prius take a tow bar, and if so what can it pull?

--
Hoping for calm nights

Alastair Law,      
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>          

Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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In reply to this post by Jeremy
Jeremy wrote
Interesting, Paul.  My new build has a south facing pitched roof, so I'm planning on using solar hot water plus photovoltaics to charge a battery pack for the low voltage LED house lighting, but the same battery pack could also be used to charge the electric bikes.  I've been riding electric bikes for a few years now and bought my first Prius hybrid in 2005 (I'm now on my second one).

Relaxation for me will be boating on the Wye, about 3/4 mile from the new house, although given the shallow water in parts of the Wye I will probably have to adapt the relatively deep draft solar powered electric drive on the "big" boat.  
Jeremy,
I know solar thermal panels inside out and installed a 30 tube panel on our roof (great fun!). We get free hot water late March to October. Make sure you plan for a heat dump in Summer - I'm seriously thinking of building a ply/epoxy jacuzzi to absorb the excess heat (several kWh) when the tank is hot enough.

Think about a 2kW grid tie system which, if you build to Passive House standards, could bring your net consumption to zero. You can easily tap into the PV feed to charge batteries...but as you know batteries lose 20% and need maintenance - its better to export power into the grid.

Passive House - 300mm insulation in walls,floors,roof, triple glazing, air-tight build with MHR ventilation.

-Paul
Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
cornishhh cornishhh
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Re: Tow Car?

I'm not sure that diesel is fuel of the future,because the oil refining process produces roughly half as much diesel as it does petrol.
Lightness is vital to good fuel economy;yet the modern trend is to make cars much heavier than they were a few decades ago.Things like wider tyres and power steering further decrease economy.
There is a chap who lives near me who tows a small RIB with a 340cc Q Pod!
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