Growing your own Garage

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Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Growing your own Garage

In order to build and store more boats, I need a larger garage and I'm extending behind the current one so the Minister of the Interior doesn't notice....

So much>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Oh yes?

I've now settled on Joris Ide 45 mm PIR insulated Roofing Panels, which they tell me can also be used for the walls - https://www.joriside.com/en-gb/media/documentatie/united-kingdom/mr046_ji-roof-pir.pdf  This will abut the old brick structure, which will be trimmed from the front to keep the footprint within 30 square metres.  A new shallow-pitch roof will then extend over the remains of the old and straight on over the new - neat, eh?

Not bad then; however I still have to start with a concrete pad and my Grund-werk-meister is currently indisposed.  A few years ago three of you kind and stout-hearted fellows came and destroyed some internal bungalow walls for me as I was also medically unable to step up to the plate at the time and TimmO was chosen to dig a large flat hole to be filled with the ensuing rubble for use as hard-core.  I have since discovered and was again helped to remove all the actual block-work and similar as it not hard enough to be core.  I now have a big pile of brick bits, mortar screed, stones (and unfortunately other amorphous debris, which I am going to sit on a milking stool with a plastic builder's handled-bin and separate out - joy).

So far I have dug out the second half of the foundations by 6" to match TimmO's original undertaking, planning to lay a reinforced-steel-mesh, concrete pad, probably with deeper edges, over a 1200 gauge membrane.  Now I've been online again and there are more opinions on hard-core substrate, under the membrane than you can shake a hairy stick at, to say nothing of deeper edges on the concrete.

Anyone care to add their two-ha'pence-worth and really confuse me?  This is at the back of the garden so I don't think it will ever be used as a main vehicular thoroughfare, though I would like to be able to stand Tit Willow in there, on her trailer -



That'd be a ton and a half then

Chris      ol–)
Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Growing your own Garage

Chris,

I have employed a Landscaper for my late- father's house.

Alongside the house Will scraped the soil to the required depth with a mini digger. Then he laid tonnes of "crushed hardcore" with a petrol powered wacking plate.
The local aggregate supplier will know what "crushed hardcore" is. I can take a picture tomorrow. It ranges from sharp pieces of stone the size of a lemon down to fine sand/gravel.

I thoroughly recommend a micro digger, which I was very keen to learn. When Will wanted a break I had a go and could move bucket fulls of soil from a trailer to a wheelbarrow. Great fun and I only hit the trailer and wheelbarrow a few times.
 
Digger arms have 4 axes controlled by 2 joysticks. There is another axis to raise or lower a plough which is used for scraping soil, leaving the base firm and undug which is desirable.

Paul




Timmo Timmo
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Re: Growing your own Garage

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Following on from Paul's comments...

Diggers are undoubtedly fun, and get a hell of a lot done in a short space of time. You'll be astonished (I'm sure) to learn I own a very old and clapped out Kubota K008-3 micro digger. Regretfully in France so of no help here. But it's suprising how often it gets used by us, or the neighbours. As Paul says, the controls are so easy to learn that in the UK I've always hired without driver and achieved what I needed quite adequately. Normally you can get cheap rates over a weekend. A little 3/4 tonne model like mine will do all you need, though a 1.5 tonne will do it quicker and in more style.

I've found driving a digger back and forth over hard core and pushing down with the bucket also compacts it pretty well. Not as neat as a whacker but a great deal quieter and saves having to get hold of the whacker.

Regarding the science of hard core... really? I've never studied it. I'm sure if you plan a concrete roadway which will be beaten up by regular traffic it's all very important but for a garage? There has to be a balance struck between cost and function. 

Seems to me the primary function of the hard core here is to make sure cavities don't appear under the slab, to ensure it's on a firm base. So almost anything that is pressed firmly into the soil and packed together so it interlocks should do the job. Blinded with sand (so the membrane is protected) and covered with 6 inches of concrete it will take substantial loads. If the concrete is reinforced (steel or the modern fibre stuff) I think even the odd cavity developing under would be survivable. Your floor will not be suffering vibration from rolling traffic. It will experience mainly static (and virtually static) loads and only the sort of vibration that comes from walking around and dropping hammers. So there won't be anything happening to 'destroy' the hard core once the job's done.

Just chatted to a friend of mine who is a bridge designer. He says (from memory, his expertise is in much bigger structures) a steel reinforced flat 6 inch concrete slab can span up to 15 feet as flooring in a building. The steel reinforcing is more important than the hard core apparently. 

WIll be nice to have a building space again!

Tim.



On 17 Nov 2018, at 12:34, Chris Waite [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

In order to build and store more boats, I need a larger garage and I'm extending behind the current one so the Minister of the Interior doesn't notice....

So much>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Oh yes?

I've now settled on Joris Ide 45 mm PIR insulated Roofing Panels, which they tell me can also be used for the walls - https://www.joriside.com/en-gb/media/documentatie/united-kingdom/mr046_ji-roof-pir.pdf  This will abut the old brick structure, which will be trimmed from the front to keep the footprint within 30 square metres.  A new shallow-pitch roof will then extend over the remains of the old and straight on over the new - neat, eh?

Not bad then; however I still have to start with a concrete pad and my Grund-werk-meister is currently indisposed.  A few years ago three of you kind and stout-hearted fellows came and destroyed some internal bungalow walls for me as I was also medically unable to step up to the plate at the time and TimmO was chosen to dig a large flat hole to be filled with the ensuing rubble for use as hard-core.  I have since discovered and was again helped to remove all the actual block-work and similar as it not hard enough to be core.  I now have a big pile of brick bits, mortar screed, stones (and unfortunately other amorphous debris, which I am going to sit on a milking stool with a plastic builder's handled-bin and separate out - joy).

So far I have dug out the second half of the foundations by 6" to match TimmO's original undertaking, planning to lay a reinforced-steel-mesh, concrete pad, probably with deeper edges, over a 1200 gauge membrane.  Now I've been online again and there are more opinions on hard-core substrate, under the membrane than you can shake a hairy stick at, to say nothing of deeper edges on the concrete.

Anyone care to add their two-ha'pence-worth and really confuse me?  This is at the back of the garden so I don't think it will ever be used as a main vehicular thoroughfare, though I would like to be able to stand Tit Willow in there, on her trailer -



That'd be a ton and a half then

Chris      ol–)


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Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Growing your own Garage

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Ah, Paulie....

You're obviously a richer man than I and much less obsessed with your dotage.  My dotage is beginning to slip over my waistband, so I ordered up a skip....

(Why does my little skipadee Southern Services not want 'tree roots' in it - anyone?)

I got quotes ranging from around one and half to three thousand for the privilege of being padded, so looking for a dose of outdoor, dotage-defying, winter exercise and this not being your actual rocket science, I determined to set-to myself.  This not only provides exercise, but conserves the planet's finite resources and more than that, does not destroy the struggling remnants of the lawn and I get to know how well the job has been done.

Or not

Enough of your mechanical mania Hadley, this is hand-hefted heroics (Is that so, Christopher?) -

 

 

If you look through the garage in the third picture, way in the distance at the front, is the skip.

Thank you for your words of pragmatic wisdom TimmO - that is kind of where I'd got to on a wing and a prayer, but it's reassuring to have a professional confirm something of the sort.  What sort of sand - 'sharp' or 'builder's' I wonder?

Today I've managed a deeper trench along the lawn edge and there's still a little room left in the skip this evening to extend the trench long the fence-edged back and side, tomorrow.

There I was - digging this hole

Chris    ol–)
Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Growing your own Garage

In reply to this post by Timmo
Following on from Tim's comments...

I was going to suggest laying the concrete in two halves butted together. That will reduce the chance of cracking in a longer span of concrete (>15ft using Tim's metric).

Concrete polishers give a lovely smooth finish. They look like floor polishers with large rotating disks. A smooth finish makes lying on the concrete to paint under a boat easier,  plus you can layout frames of wood accurately on the floor.
Getting it flat and horizontal within a nats whisker will be worth the effort. That means good preparation in the wooden shuttering, 1800mm long spirit levels and scrap aluminium extrusions which I have found to be very straight. 

A neighbour recycles scrap aluminum that another neighbour removes during his window fitting job. He gave me a flat 8ft extrusion that I found useful in marking out large projects. I'll ask Chris to look out for longer, straight lengths.

Micro diggers can be hired at affordable rates - often the hire company is so busy they won't be in a rush to pick it up Monday after a weekend. That gave us a free day.

Agreed on driving a digger backwards and forwards to compress hardcore and soil. They have rubber tracks to reduce damage, which become perfect for flattening.

I'd enjoy joing the HBBR 'chain gang' - with my dodgy back my productivity will quadruple driving a digger!

Paul

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Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Growing your own Garage

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Don't waste time mixing concrete. I used a company with a large truck of sand, cement and a portable concrete mixer on the back, when laying foundations for my conservatory.

They very quickly mixed as much concrete as I needed, which we barrowed to the rear until the height was inch perfect. Price wise they could not be beaten, there is no waste and it was all done in 30 minutes.

Paul


 
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Growing your own Garage

Right then

I should have been more explicit in my enquiries; the actual conundrums were the suitability of my hardcore and pad thickness.  My Grund-Werks-Meister (GWM) returned to circulation, approved the rubble and reeled-in my inclination to create foundations that would have supported a wartime bunker.

Anyway Paulie, you seem hell bent on spending my money for this project.  This may come as a shock to you, but of your wishes – three, or Christmas, or whatever; you only get one.  You will be delighted to hear that like you, the GWM also suggested an expansion joint.  OK, so it makes any crack look a lot straighter, but I’ve thought of much better reasons why.

Oh yes, Christopher?

The site is 2.7 x 7 metres and in parts, up to 32 metres from the street, surrounded at the back and end by the fences of others.  My two sides being shut in by the back of the present garage, which I opened sufficiently to take a barrow – sparing the last side, the lawn (a bit) -


 
Foundating in halves means that means that the ex-house hardcore could sit where it originally ended up, in a hole of indeterminate depth on the first half, while I dug out the second half -

 

(By hand you youngsters)

The ’core could then be raked to the second half (with a mattock – nothing else works as well) leaving the right amount in place in the first half hole, which proved to be just the right depth (thank you, TimmO).  Once the first half was concreted -



 ....the second half could be prepared, (excess ’core – two x one ton baggies full, being removed to the driveway for later disposal)….    and concreted.

So, Paulie – no dreamy diggers or intemperate tampers, only three basic weapons, which functioned extremely well on black coffee and cheese toasties –



The GWM brought his own long aluminium level, which is not quite as accurate as my Dear Old Dad’s slightly shorter mahogany version.  I also have a four metre straight edge along one side of a spare decking plank and a six foot steel track from a sliding wardrobe mirror door that only cost me £128,000; though I did get a three bedroom Portsmouth house into the bargain.  Sold the house.

Fossil fuels were entirely absent, thought the GWM’s manual tamper weighed in at ten kilograms and could fossilize your foot in a heartbeat.  Further to that I called upon a family heirloom – a moderately sized electric mixer that declined to be photographed on the grounds that its orange paint has now largely been shed in favour of a darker, oxidised hue.  That and eight ‘one ton’ bags of concreting ballast, together with thirty-two smally cement ones.  All mixed out front, where they were deposited by Travis Perkins; subsequently being barrowed through the garage in a more, or less sloppy consistency.  Three cheers for the GWM, who strode rapidly and purposefully around getting stuff done, while I was left scratching my head over shuttering and gyrating softly in his wake.

As for polished perfectly level concrete flooring, this is a detached garage extension on softly, but irregularly rising ground, not a ballroom in Putin’s personal nuclear bunker.  The floor in the original garage is already sloped to drain water and the new pad has to be a brick course higher, not to sink without trace.  Further, I suggest you turn hulls over to paint their bottoms, as gravity is then on your side and you are likely to get the required finish on the boat, not your face.  The eaves are only two metres up, so any boat, large enough not to be turned over, could not be jacked high enough to comfortably paint it’s tush anyway.

The adjoining lawn looks a load better than I deserve

And think of the money I save, my boy

Also, I am a possibly fitter

If older, goat

CW

Super Solstice to one and all  
Timmo Timmo
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A very fine looking piece of concrete and hats off to the manual labourers.

Next... walls, roof and doors and then the fun of filling it up!

Merry Christmas one and all.

Tim.

On 21 Dec 2018, at 13:55, Chris Waite [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Right then

I should have been more explicit in my enquiries; the actual conundrums were the suitability of my hardcore and pad thickness.  My Grund-Werks-Meister (GWM) returned to circulation, approved the rubble and reeled-in my inclination to create foundations that would have supported a wartime bunker.

Anyway Paulie, you seem hell bent on spending my money for this project.  This may come as a shock to you, but of your wishes – three, or Christmas, or whatever; you only get one.  You will be delighted to hear that like you, the GWM also suggested an expansion joint.  OK, so it makes any crack look a lot straighter, but I’ve thought of much better reasons why.

Oh yes, Christopher?

The site is 2.7 x 7 metres and in parts, up to 32 metres from the street, surrounded at the back and end by the fences of others.  My two sides being shut in by the back of the present garage, which I opened sufficiently to take a barrow – sparing the last side, the lawn (a bit) -


 
Foundating in halves means that means that the ex-house hardcore could sit where it originally ended up, in a hole of indeterminate depth on the first half, while I dug out the second half -

 

(By hand you youngsters)

The ’core could then be raked to the second half (with a mattock – nothing else works as well) leaving the right amount in place in the first half hole, which proved to be just the right depth (thank you, TimmO).  Once the first half was concreted -



 ....the second half could be prepared, (excess ’core – two x one ton baggies full, being removed to the driveway for later disposal)….    and concreted.

So, Paulie – no dreamy diggers or intemperate tampers, only three basic weapons, which functioned extremely well on black coffee and cheese toasties –



The GWM brought his own long aluminium level, which is not quite as accurate as my Dear Old Dad’s slightly shorter mahogany version.  I also have a four metre straight edge along one side of a spare decking plank and a six foot steel track from a sliding wardrobe mirror door that only cost me £128,000; though I did get a three bedroom Portsmouth house into the bargain.  Sold the house.

Fossil fuels were entirely absent, thought the GWM’s manual tamper weighed in at ten kilograms and could fossilize your foot in a heartbeat.  Further to that I called upon a family heirloom – a moderately sized electric mixer that declined to be photographed on the grounds that its orange paint has now largely been shed in favour of a darker, oxidised hue.  That and eight ‘one ton’ bags of concreting ballast, together with thirty-two smally cement ones.  All mixed out front, where they were deposited by Travis Perkins; subsequently being barrowed through the garage in a more, or less sloppy consistency.  Three cheers for the GWM, who strode rapidly and purposefully around getting stuff done, while I was left scratching my head over shuttering and gyrating softly in his wake.

As for polished perfectly level concrete flooring, this is a detached garage extension on softly, but irregularly rising ground, not a ballroom in Putin’s personal nuclear bunker.  The floor in the original garage is already sloped to drain water and the new pad has to be a brick course higher, not to sink without trace.  Further, I suggest you turn hulls over to paint their bottoms, as gravity is then on your side and you are likely to get the required finish on the boat, not your face.  The eaves are only two metres up, so any boat, large enough not to be turned over, could not be jacked high enough to comfortably paint it’s tush anyway.

The adjoining lawn looks a load better than I deserve

And think of the money I save, my boy

Also, I am a possibly fitter

If older, goat

CW

Super Solstice to one and all  



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Re: Growing your own Garage

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Great progress Chris and low carbon into the bargain. But I'm gutted a chance to drive a digger has slipped through the net..........

-Paul






Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Wonder where the garage went?

Well these things take time, in this case mostly to get the right deal on panels.  I started sometime last Autumn with a quote from a local builder, who gave an opulent quote for the basis of a rather bitty solution.  However he did introduce me to the idea of (ribbed) insulated panels; these are steel inner and outer sheets containing a foam sandwich.  The foam is PIR – polyisocyanurate, this is apparently not flammable, as opposed to PUR which apparently is – check a tower beginning with G?

At his suggestion, I contacted a company near East Grinstead who reckoned they could provide the panels, but seemed decidedly vague about the flashings to cover the ridge and corners.  So I contacted the manufacturers direct – Joris Ide.  I threatened to go and see them in Gloucestershire to make sure we were all singing from the same hymn sheet and eventually, without telling me, my contact referred me back to East Grinstead.  I explained to the salesman there that I had a less than enthusiastic reception the last time I contacted his company.

He laughed it off and promised me that he would pave the way from thereon in.  That was at the beginning of the year and he did moderately well, but tended to fade over time.  The only thing he did slip in, was that they don’t use Joris Ide, but Tata Steel in the Wirral as being cheaper.  Why go through an agent when you can approach the horse’s mouth direct?  So I phoned Tata and got myself a Sales Estimator called Mark who is a good egg and actually pressed all the right buttons….

That still didn’t make it simple

I had some questions that he could not answer, so he put me onto a ‘Technical’ expert called Ryan.  Ryan agreed that he could never quite work out the ‘handing’ of the panels and wasn’t sure about whether I wanted left or right handed.  Fortunately the senior technical advisor was walking past the phone in one of these conversations and was able to assure me that if I was laying wall panels horizontally right to left, then I needed left to right handed.

(I hope you’re taking notes, as he was actually right – as in correct.  Thank goodness I wasn’t working through a third party in East Grinstead.)

Why handed panels?  Well they’re a metre wide and you can get them any length up to sufficient to rebuild an Ocado warehouse.  One side of these has an overlap that cover/clips-over the rib on the edge of the other side of the panel next to it, by way of making a good joint.

The next thing is that they have a ‘cutback’ where the outer steel sheet protrudes beyond the sandwich.  It is one end only (I discovered later) and it has to be at least twenty-five millimetres long, but not more than two hundred millimetres.  You can’t have sheets without, as they use this bit to pull the panel through their machinery, during the production process.

OK

Then I had Lisa the ‘Internal Account Coordinator’ to deal with.  She required that I send her the correctly completed forms, or she wasn’t playing.  Now Mark had already commended me on my accuracy having compared me favourably to other customers who drew up their designs on the back of fag packets, (Ocado?).  She sent me some blank copies on Excel – jolly good, but they were all about special panels with chamfers for right angle corners.  This was interesting as East Grinstead had denied Tata produced any such item and I phoned her back to point out the discrepancy.  In so many words she told me to wind my neck in and fill them out, ignoring the chamfers; I got back to Mark who questioned my competence, but when I told him the title and number of the chamfer form I had received, sent me the correct one himself.

Anyway, once the corners and cutbacks are in, they are covered by flashings, yes those; so it doesn’t matter if they don’t quite match.  This is just as well, as having filled in the form (and returned) correctly, I woke up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night realizing that I hadn’t allowed for the height of the rib less the overlap-lip (16 mm.) so in a frantic communication the next day I got them to change the end panel dimensions….

I was right first time of course, but you’ll never know as they will be underneath that flashing.

They will not start fabrication until they have your money and Lisa promised me she’d get right onto it, so as soon as the next working day (working day) came round I spoke to Anne on the phone and paid by card.  

Nothing

So the next working day, I contacted Lisa again and she provided me an order acknowledgement though the email of someone called Phillip.  It had a delivery date of 25th December 2019; I kid you not.

The next teensy weensy problemette was the articulated truck they routinely deliver with and expect you to have machinery to unload, as being a customer you’re not allowed on the truck bed.  So I paid an extra £75 for a rigid truck and Moffet clingon three-wheel forklift.

Finally on 21st March –



(Sorry for the fuzzy photo; Nikon's finest tele-whatsit?)

Here come the panels down my diminutive close; note the yellow cab of the truck parked up at the far end.  

Makes you proud to be British

Doesn’t it?

CW



Randonneur Randonneur
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Re: Growing your own Garage

A great narrative. I admire your persistence. I'd have ordered  a couple of pallets of bricks and used them 😄


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Re: Growing your own Garage

Randonneur wrote
A great narrative. I admire your persistence. I'd have ordered  a couple of
pallets of bricks and used them 😄
Timber frame for me, but Chris will have a well insulated and rot-proof structure. Just right for the UK climate  

-Paul


Chris Waite Chris Waite
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OK Paulie

I think you had to go on bended knee to your neighbour to unwrap the rot in the back of your wooden shed, yes?  Well note my comment further down this upload; combustible structures are not within the regulations regarding 'Permitted Development'.

Then regarding bricks?  That Pete, is probably because you know how to lay them

The panels are Trisomet 333 (40 mm. foam) –

https://www.tatasteelconstruction.com/en_GB/Products/Building-envelope/Roof/Sandwich-panel-systems/Trisomet®

The original idea was to use these panels for the roof, where bricks are a bit heavy and not really the right shape.  But having chased up the panels, it seemed sensible to simply continue them for walls as well, on the grounds that there would only need to be eight pieces as opposed to some one and a quarter thousand bricks, which would also have needed one metre foundations in addition, below the previously installed pad; I know, you do the foundations first and pour the pad inside it, but don’t ruin a good story.  Anyway say the bricks would cost about six hundred pounds and then you would need to have the extra foundations, the sand and cement and a bricklayer and none of the advantages set out in the next paragraph.  The panels for the walls came out at little more than eight hundred pounds.

Why not just sheet steel, cement boarding, or those Stonehenge/border-wall prefabricated concrete garage panels?  Well, the latter are more expensive than the sandwich and again, the initial suggestion was Ecopanels – steel outer layer, 30 mm. of foam and an aluminium foil inner cover.  Regulations state that any structure within two metres of a boundary should be ‘substantially incombustible’ and Ecopanels do not profess to be as fire resistant as Trisomet.  Further to that, Tata’s finest will deaden both the buzzy sound of Christopher Waite building yet more boats and the cold trying to delay his setting epoxy.  Similarly the aluminium foil probably isn’t very HBB-goat-proof.

Win-win?

As I don’t stick steel either, I am luck to have a handy welder just around the corner and had previously allowed myself to start cutting my 50 x 50 x 6 mm. angle-iron to produce the frame; here are the first three roof trusses to go over the extension –



However I did not want to settle the 2 x 1metre panel eaves height versus the vertical angle-iron until I could lay the one next to the other to be sure neither of them was lying to me –

   

Once trimmed to fit and accept the trusses, I could take my handy SDS drill and punch holes in the concrete pad to take the Rawlplugs to hold the base plates of the angle-iron posts.  I replaced the set screws with stainless equivalents as suggested by my GWM (Ground Works Master) and was going to fill the holes with silicone sealant until he pointed out that silicone is a lubricant and the plugs would go round and round rather than gripping.  I reckoned guttering mastic would be a better bet, but he would have been right on that count as well if he’d known.  Took an age of stoofing about to clean up the prototype hole sufficiently to set the plug; the rest went in untreated and worked fine.  Six of them and only two needed shimming up to get them about vertical; the rest are very nearly as good as gold –
 


The angle-iron came, delivery free, from the Metal Store –

 https://www.themetalstore.co.uk/products/mild-steel-suppliers-uk-mild

Once the verticals were in, I balanced the trusses on top and clamped them there –

   

Then finally ran the eave and ridge purlins, or whatever they are along the trusses, locking the ridge in, egg-box style, tapping it all into a near perfect alignment, (close enough for government work anyway) –

     

But that was yesterday and just today, I ordered up the welder

And here I sit waiting

CW
Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Growing your own Garage

It's looking really good Chris, like Meccano for big boys

Did you consider bolting the steel frame together? With a cheap pillar drill it's not difficult drilling the holes and you get a bit of wiggle room later when adding the panels, especially if you make a jig. Remember the oval slots in Meccano?
Welding is stronger, but the tension and compression should be fine with 8mm or 10mm bolts.


BTW:
The "permitted development" rules are aimed at dwellings i.e. extensions to an existing dwelling or outhouses with sleeping accommodation.

Outbuildings (sheds) have fewer restrictions and "substantially non-combustible" applies to outbuildings above 15 sqm.

Also timber frame construction often has brick outer walls or trendy metal cladding. Timber frame can make the warmest eco houses of the future; cue Jeremy to chime in!

-Paul
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Growing your own Garage

Ahh Paulie, you little sausage

I spent every spare moment of my formative years playing with Meccano; (that, making model boats to my own design –

    

….out sailing and generally ranging the countryside).

I’ll see your quibbles and raise you –

Firstly, the frame is up and ready for welding.  The Works-Meister suggested bolting the frame together, but I think I had already decided on welding as being locally available, stronger and requiring fewer holes to be drilled.

Secondly, as you are possibly aware, both my garage here and the one in Arundel look as if someone has shoved a junk yard into a matchbox.  Where exactly do you think I’m going to set up a pillar drill, how often will I use it thereafter and why do you think I’m building a garage extension?  You should also know me well enough to be aware of my aversion to gathering herds of gadgets, I quote yet again –

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex.  It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage, to move in the opposite direction - Einstein

And on to Permitted Development Regulations; do you really think for the merest moment that I haven’t read and reread them and read them again?

So if one garage is a tad under 15 square metres then extending to TWO garages is?  Yes, you’ve got it – a tad under the permitted 30 square metres; 2.7 x 11 metres is 29.7 square metres.

Is that close enough for government work?

The next thing is that the photograph of the Moffett coming down the close shows it carrying your ‘trendy metal cladding’.  Wooden frames are nothing like as resistant to deterioration, or storm damage, as steel, (the Trisomet brochure gives Newtons’ worth of [wind] suction figures along with load bearing).  I have yet to see a garage with a timber frame inside its brick walls and such structures take up valuable chunks of the modest 30 square metres.

For instance, the pad is 2700 mm. wide, to stay in line with the original brick structure, of which I intend to demolish the first two and a half metres, bringing the whole within the 30 square metre limit. It will also provide space between garage and house (with deck) to get my pocket gaffer Tit Willow through to the back, where there will be a 3.5 metre open side to winkle her in if necessary.  Note her trailer is 2240 mm., the original lifting door on the current structure is 2135 mm. (7’) – a ‘no go’ and 2265 mm. including the wooden frame abutting the brick ‘returns’.  That’s about half an inch a side, if I made the frame removable; how close do you want me to get?  My current alternative is to have the returns set back by half a brick, allowing 100 mm. posts in the recess, but that would mean a new door.  Well maybe.

The real question is how often will I be moving the gaffer – “Not very” came back the echo; so she needs to be at the back, beyond all the side shelves and junk that would be in the way if I wanted to pull her straight out.  I could leave her at the front of the garage, but to maximize the useable space she would best come in bows first and that means having to turn her on the diminutive front drive, it takes the Transit to shove her up backwards over the pavement onto the drive and it’s no good pulling her up, or the van is between her and the objective.  On her trailer, we’re talking one and a half tonnes here.

The other thing is that there would be no inside way round her and it would be useful to be able to get into the bowels of the garage from the front, without having to walk across the lawn, which doesn’t appreciate a winter and welly combination.  I really don’t want any more concrete causeways in the garden.

Within the extension, subtract 112 mm. from 2700 mm. for the combined thickness of the side panels and 2 x 50 mm. in way of the angle-iron posts, leaving an interior dimension of 2488 mm.  That’s 5” a side on the trailer.

So, none of your brilliant light bulb moments and regret at leisure, young man

I may be an old goat, but I’m quite able to suck eggs

This is after all just a longer garage

No ‘eco house’

CW
inwe inwe
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Re: Growing your own Garage

That's a good slab Chris. Can't wait ( pardon the pun ) to see it finished and in use.

Richard
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Growing your own Garage

As I’ve already explained to a handful of old stalwarts

Thursday morning the welder rode in on the storm; it was like being run down by the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse – Mordor grey, freezing cold, blowing a hoolie, with rain in the wind and sparks flying everywhere and when he left, the frame had been welded.  Too dark and dismal for pictures, but we all know what happens when you paint steel first and weld it afterwards; very smoky.

So I spent a happy few hours with whizzy wire brush and sandpaper getting the worst off, then I slopped on some replacement Hammerite – like trying to get a good finish when raking horse manure onto a ceramic tile.

Lucky it actually keeps rust at bay.

Then the moment for the first panel application actually arrived.  I chose the easiest as I’ve never used Tek screws before -

http://www.minerallac.com/resource-center/ins-and-outs-tek-screws/ 

Just as well.  It was suggested that despite these marvels of modern science being self drilling, a pilot hole makes for an easier life.  I’d already spent happy hours working out where they should come on the frame and taking bit to steel – tedious but relatively easy.

The real problem is that you then have to extend the pilot hole back into the foam/steel sandwich panel, so that you can introduce the screw from outside as it has specially moulded Van Dyke brown plastic heads so as to be camouflaged when protruding from amongst the external ribbing.  It did occur to me that the 4 mm. bit was probably not long enough to get close into the angle iron when trying to reach the external skin from inside, but a rough eye-ball seemed to indicate that there was sufficient space

Wrong

Sometimes it works with a little grating of chuck on steel, but other times it takes shoving a failed Bosch ‘construction’ bit (my advice is not to buy them) into the hole, placing a lump of wood outside and giving the bit a sharp tap with a hammer to introduce a pimple where the outer hole ought to be.  Then you need to take a punch and convert from pimple to dimple, so that you can drill an external 4 mm. hole to complete the preparations.

That should be good enough, but the foam sandwich and life conspire to outwit you; driving the Tek screw from outside does not necessarily mean that it locates the inner pilot hole.  So you need to unscrew it a tad from outside and wiggle a piece of wire around inside feeling for the fizzy sensation of threaded Tek.  That gives you an inkling as to which way it has gone astray; I’m rapidly getting better at this skill.

Lucky really, as I have most of two hundred to do.

Anyway, here is the first panel and the second above it –

 

These are relatively easy as there is only an inquisitive bush in the immediate vicinity.  You wait ’til I show you the interestingly claustrophobic space between the back and side panels and the neighbours’ fences.

Maybe I should have used Pete's bricks

CW

momist momist
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Re: Growing your own Garage

So how about trying the Tek screws without the pilot hole, using a good impact driver?
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Growing your own Garage

It's a good question

I get a sneaking feeling they would have a propensity to try and wriggle off course, given the freedom of the foam sandwich

The space between the panels and the fence really is very tight, so even my old Bosch drill is a tad too long and in one place I had to hammer the drill end of the Tex Screws into the pilot hole before there was room to fit the drill and wind them home -



But never mind, I have resorted to ancient Egyptian principles.  That doesn’t mean if you peered over the fence you’d see me in a white kilt, bare chested, with sandals and a cobra head band, but it took some thought to get the four back panels behind the posts in the right order to put them up -

  

But that was yesterday, and just today I managed to get all bar the last, end-wall, upper panel in place –

“Wey Hey and up she rises!
Seven panels in different sizes
Wey Hey and up she rises!
Some time around mid-morning”

The panels are not light, but not that heavy (about 9.5 kilograms per square metre - that makes the big ones about 33 kilograms); it's just that they are every bit as awkward to handle as a sheet of chunky ply and the instructions specify a bead of mastic at each end joint and where the lower edge of the upper panel overlaps the upper rib on the lower panel.  This stuff comes in reels wound straight around itself with only a layer of white plastic tape separating the coils.  It would love to get smeared around so the panel in its slings must be held off until it is exactly the right level to be shoved home.  For this reason, you can't sling underneath so you have to loop round under the lower mid-rib.  The upper mid-rib is too high to allow the panel to be raised far enough to set the mastic bead.  I could have set the bead inside the overlap, but that means having to remember not to let anything get inside the overlap while playing 'Park the Panel' with its neighbours behind the posts.  Anyway, it didn't occur to me and it's too late now, the deed is nearly done; what fun it has been -    

 

 

Actually the last photograph was taken at end of play this very afternoon and the eighth is down on the right there, peeping over it's nether cousin and waiting for the morrow to take its rightful place, as that is as far as I got....

Then a Van Dyke brown, ribbed covering for the gable and onto the roof

Pete, cancel the bricks

Chris W



 
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Growing your own Garage

The gable end

It took most of two days of “Work out how to cut in an angled sort of way, into a horizontally ribbed panel”.  I got the last wall panel up reasonably quickly, but have spent the rest of the time measuring up then trying to cut inner and outer steel covering on the cladding, for the gable.  Each surface has to be done separately, but in line with the other side, as the inner one is only very lightly ribbed, but the blade on the jig-saw is long enough to require that there is a half inch piece of spacing-ply under the footplate, or it punches through the valleys in between the ribs and not necessarily in the right place.  Then the outer skin has 32 mm ribs that mean you can’t get the jigsaw flat, but have to stop and work out how to cutty-crawl up and over the rib and down the other side, without the blade pulling clear of the surface and bouncing around knocking denty sorts of holes in the surrounding plasticised coating on the steel.  The sun starts to get low and it is impossible to see a pencil mark, under powdered foam with steel cutting swarf, on dark brown plasti-paint, in the increasing shadows.  But fixing the two halves has meant the end of the walls –



The real problem with ordering up help, is that while it would reduce the time taken to get the panels in place, there is then an hour or two of applying beads of mastic, setting the fastenings and in the case of the roof, doctoring (well it would be, wouldn’t it?) the next panel for installation.  Really – all that is a one-man operation and what does the assistant do then poor chap?  I don’t want anyone thinking they’ve been side-lined, but most of my projects are deep in my head and it takes longer to explain to somebody else what I have in mind, then keep an eye on them to make sure it’s going the way I planned than it does just to get on and do it myself.

Then there’s only me to blame

Onto the roof next

Fiddler?

CW
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