Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

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Rob Blackburn Rob Blackburn
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Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Well where do you start. We are not short of boats and kayaks etc around the yard but I have been really keen on a sailing canoe for a while. I bought a set of plans for the John Floutier Rushton Princess as I think it is divine. But. I found a chap in Brisbane building one and I think from memory he was up to about 2,000 hours and had a fair bit to go. He has done an absolutely amazing job and I decided it was simply beyond me. A fair bit of his effort seemed to have gone into the worthy construction of a removable wine/beer storage unit that is not dissimilar to a Faberge egg. Simply brilliant but not something I could do.

So then I went back to my original idea and that was Katie Beardie. So after much pondering and studying of all the stuff I can find on her and acting a bit like Benedict Cumberbatch... I joked with Graham Neil... But he has been very patient with me and we have started.

My wife went on a girls trip to Japan last month so I just happened to find myself at Lismore Timber and Plywood with the 4WD and the rest is history. I bought three sheets of 6mm Hoop Pine AC ply. ie not marine but the next best thing. Hoop is a nice soft plywood and is not one of those ones that rips and gets all splintery. I had the internal discussion on how thick to get and I was hoping to get 5mm here but they did not have any. So 6mm it was. Turns out Graham did his in 4mm and it looks to be an easier process but this will be strong. It will be shark resistant.

https://picasaweb.google.com/110995359000842821835/KatieBeardieSailingCanoeBuild

(I will keep adding shots to this album and hopefully it will update itself. I am at a bit of crossroads with online photo albums as I find it hard to get my head around them. They seem more interested in sharing obscurely to people you don’t know rather than showing photos.)

First problem I struck was that our sheets of ply are 2.4m x 1.2m. Not 8’x4’.  ie 45.3 inches vs 48 etc. So the plans did not allow for all the pieces to be cut out of 2 sheets. Luckily my instinctive action of buying a spare sheet was warranted. So all bits are cut out and I have stitched her together.

Stitching the bow together was a bit scary at first as the ply was quite stiff but it has worked out pretty well. It will work with a few spacers wedged into spots to get things to see it my way. In other words it will cooperate eventually.

I sat in it the other night to get the feel for the size and I think it will be really good.

I have also bought a second hand laser rudder blade for $25, ie twelve quid, to modify as the centreboard. I am now on the hunt for a smaller foil for the rudder blade.

WIll cut out bulkheads on Wednesday as I have the day off and will put up some more shots of that.

Cheers

Rob

Rob Blackburn Rob Blackburn
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Have added more photos to the link.
Some rough work but it is going together well. I am really enjoying the fact that there are no 'plans as such'. Making it up instead of buggering it up.

Got a couple of tubes of West 610 with the mixer tubes today and it is great stuff. Tacking the panels together with that and will start glassing bits now to stop it all flying apart at the bow when I take the ties out. It does not run or sag and is easy to use. Love it. Will cover it with filleting compound and glass tape so you won't see the rough work there.

Have relooked at the centreboard issue and it seems to my reading that you want about 4% of sail area as centreboard area...according to the 'customs of the sea' so will move the Laser rudder blade to be the rudder after cutting it down a bit and will get onto a proper bigger centreboard. Am thinking about 5m of sail. Plans say 40 sq foot so a bit more should be fine as I am not 4 stone wringing wet.

Sat in it as the photo showed on the grass and it feels a good size.

Onwards

Rob
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Excellent Rob!

I'm glad you're taking my Exterior Grade Origami to heart.  It really is intended to be as simple as you are making it look.  Despite all the mumbo-jumbo that's talked about boat design, unless it is utterly extreme, everything will float and move and there's no need to panic over millimetres, or even inches.  In fact if you had shrunk the measurements the merest smidgen, I am sure you could have got a perfectly serviceable hull out of your two metric ply sheets.

There's a quote from the designer of the Spitfire, RJ Mitchell to a test pilot:

"If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane that is so complicated you cannot understand it; take it from me, it’s all balls."

And if you can say something like that about the Spitfire, then I am working on the level of kindergarten alphabet blocks

Chris W
 
   
Rob Blackburn Rob Blackburn
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

I think you are right in the "if you can't explain it" stakes. It is a simple business at the end of the day. What I am not sure of and wonder if you would make a suggestion on is the rig.

As drawn/sketched/doodled, you have about 30 sq foot of sail suggested. And you have it across two masts.

How tippy is the Katie B when you start moving your 88kg around in the cockpit? I won't know for about another week when I get my hull into the pool for some testing. (about all a swimming pool is good for when your kids leave home)   It seems to me that a mast in the bow sounds like it might as well be on Mars if something jams or it gets windy suddenly or something diabolical happens.

So, I have been poking around Selway Dory's site and am warming to their expedition/bermudan rig.

http://www.solwaydory.co.uk/products/canoe-sailing-rigs/the-expedition-bermudan-rig/

It looks about the right size at 35 sq foot and can be reefed down in 7 stages or so.

The other angle/preference is a roller reefed lug rig like on Laydon's Paradox. Seems more complex than this though. The upside of his layout is you have a shorter mast than the Bermudan layout. So if you were to want to get all the stuff down and out of the wind, it would be much easier.

Also if you have the sail put away on his design, you simply have it rolled up tight on the deck beside/in front of you.

But historically, all of the old canoeists recommend the main/mizzen configuration.

What do you think?

Puzzled.


simplesimon simplesimon
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

I can't answer the question about stability (and Graham is somewhere on his way down the Thames until Saturday)
However a number of the old main-and-mizzen canoes had the mainmast mounted in some kind of pivoting tabernacle so it could be lowered by someone sitting in the cockpit. That arrangement gave access to the masthead so any problems there could be sorted, and yards could be attached to masts etc.
The mizzen mast, being just behind the cockpit was easily accessible anyway.

Two sails has the advantage of being able to balance the rig, which can reduce the loads on the rudder (and can allow you to sail using a paddle to steer if you are skilled enough to do that and keep the boat upright.  Double paddlers set the rig so the boat will turn upwind if left to itself and then use a low brace stroke on the lee side; single paddlers sit to windward and use corrective strokes on the windward side.) Two sails also give more headroom in the cockpit if the main boom is short enough not to hit you in the face; and it's easy to reef by dropping a sail.

That said, if you want to be able to get to the mast foot while in the cockpit, you need to mount the mast at the front of the cockpit. (A number of the old boys used to do both, twin rig for racing and fair weather, just the one sail at other times.)

Personally I use a single 3.8sqm sail (off an Optimist), but I sail an open boat and can get to the mast foot easily. Most of the UK Open Canoe Sailing Group do likewise (see their website and Facebook); but that said, there have been times when I wished I had a mizzen!

Simon
Rob Blackburn Rob Blackburn
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Thanksfor this will reply tomorrow as I have to go out to a meeting
Rpb


On Mon, 1 Jun 2015 7:37 pm simplesimon [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:
I can't answer the question about stability (and Graham is somewhere on his way down the Thames until Saturday)
However a number of the old main-and-mizzen canoes had the mainmast mounted in some kind of pivoting tabernacle so it could be lowered by someone sitting in the cockpit. That arrangement gave access to the masthead so any problems there could be sorted, and yards could be attached to masts etc.
The mizzen mast, being just behind the cockpit was easily accessible anyway.

Two sails has the advantage of being able to balance the rig, which can reduce the loads on the rudder (and can allow you to sail using a paddle to steer if you are skilled enough to do that and keep the boat upright.  Double paddlers set the rig so the boat will turn upwind if left to itself and then use a low brace stroke on the lee side; single paddlers sit to windward and use corrective strokes on the windward side.) Two sails also give more headroom in the cockpit if the main boom is short enough not to hit you in the face; and it's easy to reef by dropping a sail.

That said, if you want to be able to get to the mast foot while in the cockpit, you need to mount the mast at the front of the cockpit. (A number of the old boys used to do both, twin rig for racing and fair weather, just the one sail at other times.)

Personally I use a single 3.8sqm sail (off an Optimist), but I sail an open boat and can get to the mast foot easily. Most of the UK Open Canoe Sailing Group do likewise (see their website and Facebook); but that said, there have been times when I wished I had a mizzen!

Simon


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Rob Blackburn Rob Blackburn
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Launched for some sea trials today in the pool.

We all had a bit of a paddle around and marvelled at the craftsmanship on display... (irony). But she floated nicely and have marked out the seat position for my weight. Going to allow a bit of aft movement as the weight of the rig etc will be in front of me but I think it will be pretty well spot on for what we are trying to achieve.

Happy with the stability. Going to stray from Grahams setup and make it so I can shift my bum to windward under the side deck to balance the boat whilst sailing up until things get hairy and have to get up on the gunwhale.  Think a reef is probably more in order at that point.

Bit of a neighbourhood event.

https://goo.gl/photos/FmJfCJPcgPz4eHoz9

Rob
Port-Na-Storm Port-Na-Storm
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Congratulations on the launch Rob. Must be really useful having your own test tank in the backyard. I know CW has a favourite ditch.
I tend to agree with your previous post, the mast does seem as if its on mars, so you need a fool proof system unless you sail where you can get out and walk.  
I've posted a few photos of the Bufflehead we saw at Beale on my blog. The rig is all carbon fibre and cam cleats, very high tech.
Despite being at Beale for two days I didn't get the chance to talk to anyone about it, too busy gassing.
I wonder how you reef that sprit boom without having to take a walk round the deck.
Maybe Brian P knows how it works?
Rob Blackburn Rob Blackburn
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Graham,

One quick question that I have sort of asked before but... looking at this picture it sort of suggests that either Katie had a fair bit of weight onboard as the freeboard looks lower in the middle than ours does or the sheer line is more pronounced. Are you sure you have not 'tampered' with it?

It is just that it looks like it sort of dips in the middle about the cockpit more than our version. Should I hit it with the power plane?

Rob

https://goo.gl/photos/eNynXbTPzkS4NV3t5

BrianP BrianP
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

In reply to this post by Port-Na-Storm
On the subject of Bufflehead sail reefing, Axel Schmid has a wonderful site covering Bufflehead building and sailing. Great resource http://www.bootsbaugarage.ch/index_en.html

I have dropped him a line about all the details reefing when underway. I did see her reefed with full mast and then shake out the reef at Beale. Looks like you work at the mast base, releasing the halyard, gathering the sail foot, and moving the sprit position to new higher eyes in the luff of the sail, but will be good to get the full story from Axel with photos next week. He has a more evolved design.

Whilst your there have a look at Artemis, Axel's new design for a 50/50 simpler build more protected waters design. http://www.bootsbaugarage.ch/kit.htm At just 30" wide she is very much a 50/50 designed to paddle well with a double paddle, Buuflehead being best with a single paddle. Artemis is close to Katie Beardie in her aims.

Axel uses the Solway Dory rig on Artemis which reefs by rolling around the mast. This is very quick to do, but Axel feels the Bufflehead rig is a better performer with a much stiffer carbon mast.

Great to have more and more sailing canoe designs coming out.

That super comfy seat in Bufflehead is very complex to make, so Axel has developed a simpler to make design which covers all the same functionality, moves from side to side and has pivoting triangles at end corner to allow height adjustment when sailing or paddling and also angle adjustment if sailing a long tack. Axel can supply drawing to build it. More here http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?176722-New-Wooden-Sailing-Canoes-Artemis-Nautilus-and-TriRaid-560&p=4421098#post4421098

Brian
Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

In reply to this post by Rob Blackburn
Rob,

Different cameras distort pictures is different ways. But I think Graham had much more "junk" on board, plus the decking and fittings and the she looks at least 3in lower than your empty hull.

regards
Paul
Port-Na-Storm Port-Na-Storm
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Hi Rob.
A few things to consider.
That photo was taken at the end of the Thames Raid as we crossed the lake at Beale Park to tumultuous silence, as the Show was cancelled due to bad weather on the Friday. There was a howling gale and the skipper was suffering from a bad dose of Thames Tummy which explains the green complexion and the look of grim determination to get the bloody thing over with.
Katie was carrying my camping kit for the week and as others will testify I have a bad habit of filling her enormous holds with all manner of "stuff". I was a bit heavier then so I estimate the total load at about 230lbs.
As Paul also points out there's the weight of the decking, bulkheads, centreboard and case etc. To add to what you've already got. So she's sitting a good bit lower in the water.
The gunwale is a good inch deep, painted to match the deck so the edge of the black in the photo is an inch lower than the actual upper edge of the plank, giving the illusion of lower sides.
I may have given her a bit more flair in the sides. A rough measurement says she is 34" across the tops of the planks at the widest point. Splaying the sides out will effectively drop the sheer a bit.

This photo shows her at about the same stage yours is now, a lot more freeboard.



By comparison, here we are again crossing the finishing line in better weather, better health, still with the same amount of "stuff" but believe it or not the skipper is nearly a stone lighter.

 

Thanks to John "Ratcatcher" Lockwood for the photo.
Have fun
Cheers
Graham.


 
Port-Na-Storm Port-Na-Storm
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Then along comes Ratcatcher with more incriminating evidence.

Ooh what a pretty boat!



This was taken at Barton Broad in April.
Katie is empty apart from the lump in the cockpit.

Incidentally it was pretty breezy at times so I didn't get the main up, but she went along quite nicely with the mizzen.
Helpful? No I didn't think so.
Rob Blackburn Rob Blackburn
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Ok. I am convinced. I will proceed as planned. 

We have just started booking our lodgings in England for our trip in September. We are going to be in Winchester which is not far from Katies home port so might get a chance to eye ball things then. I have a daughter at St Swithuns on the staff for the year.

I figure the next part of the puzzle is the centreboard. Once I work out where that can go I can set out the rest of the furniture.

I have managed to buy an old wood filled/glassed board which I have cut down. 

Work calls for the next 3 days so shall not get much done until next week.

Cheers

Rob

On 17 June 2015 at 08:07, Port-Na-Storm [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Then along comes Ratcatcher with more incriminating evidence.

Ooh what a pretty boat!



This was taken at Barton Broad in April.
Katie is empty apart from the lump in the cockpit.

Incidentally it was pretty breezy at times so I didn't get the main up, but she went along quite nicely with the mizzen.
Helpful? No I didn't think so.



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Rob Blackburn Rob Blackburn
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Glacial Progress Report

Have finally and I mean finally glued together the centreboard case. Has taken about a month. First up I drilled the holes crooked for the bush/pin for the board. Was woeful. So started that again and found an old chap in town with a good drill press and redid it.

Then assembled it and realised I would have to paddle/sail only in the channel as the centreboard was way too big. Cut off 200mm.

Then redid the case smaller but in the process I managed another amazing error. Cut the end off the side pieces without taking into account the packer piece. So had to fibreglass/epoxy it all back together and start that bit again. The best part of this was I double checked. Put the jig saw down and said to myself..."you are sure aren't you young grasshopper...". Then I cut it then I saw the problem. Measure twice think twice.

Have ordered the sail. Going to go down the Paradox rolling up around the boom idea. Have asked for 5.5sq m so should be interesting in a breeze. But if it is a hot day and light winds, then I should be able to put the paddle away.

Next job is to cut the hole in the bottom of the hull for then centreboard case. Will get a friend to sign off on it first.

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipOgjc_uaPQtcgz51EI4TSsqX_UMwdW08y16f-Ti

R



Port-Na-Storm Port-Na-Storm
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Welcome to the Chapel of Partial Remembrance Brother Robert.

You are amongst friends here, we have all walked the path you have walked, made the cock-ups, and have the leisure wear covered in epoxy to prove it.

As our old woodwork teacher used to say, "I made this model out of my head, and there's plenty more wood to make another one."

I notice even your link to the photographic evidence doesn't work, a particularly nice touch there.  

measure twice, think twice, go and have a cuppa then measure again.
Rob Blackburn Rob Blackburn
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

This post was updated on .
Sail has arrived and here is a couple of quick snaps. 53 sq foot which is bigger than is probably sensible but it is infinitely reefable and without me getting up off my large ballast area.

Centreboard and case is all done and now back from 5 days seakayaking I am ready to do the bulkheads and keep going.

R




Rob Blackburn Rob Blackburn
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Still going.

https://goo.gl/photos/FmJfCJPcgPz4eHoz9

Launch day fast recedes but I am enjoying the process.

Had a nice coffee and chat and inspection of the Original Katie Beardie 6 weeks ago or so whilst we were in England. Nice to catch up with Graham.

I have decided that I have been thinking about problems too much and am just going to plough ahead and anything that is a hopeless joke will be rebuilt in the future. There is not a moment to lose at our age so are just getting on with it.

Made the seat today and put in the aft bulkhead.

Puzzled a lot over the adjustment mechanism for fore and aft rake but in the end went with a simple system. Nothing like those Bufflehead guys have.

Onwards.

Rob
Port-Na-Storm Port-Na-Storm
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Hi Rob,
It was good to meet up with you both, I hope you enjoyed your tour through civilisation ;-)
Keep up the good work, are we expecting a launch during your antipodean summer?

Cheers Graham.
Rob Blackburn Rob Blackburn
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Re: Katie Beardie as done in Australia...

Yes Graham it was a very civilizing experience after the exchange rate was factored into things. We felt as if we were part of the Royal Family as surely only they could afford to live there! We really loved the whole of England, we had forgotten all the things we enjoyed over your side from when we were there in the 80's. Boat wise I thought Bowness on Windemere a treat except for the extreme amount of fibreglass on display. With all the building controls in place you would think they would ban plastic boats from the photos. I would love to retire to England and buy a pub on a canal.
Anyway, I have bought two more sheets of 6mm ply for the deck as the 3mm I have is too bendy I think and will have funny wows and dips and humps as it bends across the deck beams and also takes the shape of the sheerline. Have finished the patent pending seat with fore and aft rake, upright for paddling, laid back for sailing and cruising, and it will also cant side to side. Should be amazing if it actually works as planned.

Putting in the steering pedals next and getting the rudder hardware made by an old chap in town who is a stainless fabricator as I can't put the deck on before that works.

Trying to decide how big to make the cockpit opening. I think will go a bit bigger than my sea kayak but perhaps only 25% bigger. Dunno.

Cheers

Rob

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