Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association

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Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association

As a Solent Dinghy Cruising Association member

I am obliged to use Yahoo to link-up on-line with the others in the group.  As we have previously come to the conclusion, Yahoo is a retrograde disaster and why we now Forumbulate on Fabulous Nabbulous.

OK; We use Nabble then.

I have been whingeing about this over on their "Dinghy Cruising Solent" and one smart cookie said -
"Go on then, do it and see what happens"

Seems fair enough to me, but before I start my free Nabble forum - which I am aware will have adverts -

Are there any pitfalls that anyone might care to point out to me?

A word from the wise would go down well

CW

Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association (Solent)

Great idea Chris,

I was a DCA member and should probably join again having spent many happy weeks at the Cobnor event each year (except for 2014 but will DEFINITELY be at the 2015 week, come hell or high water). And of course I know a lot of the people involved.

It's probably easier if I create it and become the owner and make you an Administrator and guide you along - that allows you to approve new members and boot out the spammers and ban them till the end of time. Maybe Grim is also interested as he is, like me, an Administrator for this forum and also knows the DCA characters.

Then if all goes well we can train Liz to become Administrator.

Definitely make it Solent only, otherwise we are creating a lot of work for ourselves and as you say its a trial anyway.

ttfn
Paul
Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association (Solent)

Something else to think about is the sub-forums that suit DCA Solent.

Probably "DCA Solent Events" for all the sailing meets and discussion of up coming weather and last minute changes.

Also "General Discussion" for all the chit-chat, which should be kept out of the more serious and down to earth Events topic.

Just suggestions.

-Paul
Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
alopenboat alopenboat
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association (Solent)

In reply to this post by Paul (admin)
Just my 2d worth.

I make all my forum communications (DCA talk, Yahoo, Nabble, Facebook etc)
via email and, therefore, see no difference between them during normal
operation (indeed I am often not aware which system a particular post is
using). The only difference I see between Nabble and Yahoo is, as Liz
pointed out, the Yahoo photos get posted in a common location which, for
rally communications, is much more convenient.

By all means start up a new Nabble group, but make sure that nothing
happens to DinghySolent until it is quite certain that the new group is
superior.

Recent history has shown us how improvements and upgrades sometimes aren't.


GregHBBR GregHBBR
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association

In reply to this post by Chris Waite
Hi Chris,
Chris Waite wrote
As a Solent Dinghy Cruising Association member

I am obliged to use Yahoo to link-up on-line with the others in the group.
Oh No You Are Not!

If you like the Nabble Interface but others still love Yahoo then simply create your Nabble app as an archive of the YahooGroup.

1. Go to: http://www.nabble.com/

2. Click the "Archive a Mailing List" link and complete the form.

Result, even the retrograde's are happy, as they can continue to use the interface they are used to.

Are there any pitfalls that anyone might care to point out to me?
You can pay to have adverts removed. Always bear in mind that the adverts are personalised, so those you see bear no relation to those that others may see. Those that appear depend on the user's own recent search history.

If I remember earlier conversations right one of your complaints was that it is not possible on YahooGroups to include images in your posts, forcing you to go to the YahooGroups site and upload photographs to a specific Photos or Files area. That is just a matter of persuading the Group owner to change one of the group settings.

Another complaint I recall was that following threads is difficult, but if you subscribe to the YahooGroup in the same way that many subscribe and post via email here then following topics and finding material is nothing to do with YahooGroups but simply how good your own mail program is, whether you delete read mail and your ability to use it to search for old posts.

If you choose to make a completely independent app at Nabble, then you risk splitting the membership of your group - unless you can persuade the current YahooGroup owner to set his to disallow any posting and direct everyone to the new Nabble app.

In short, it may be that you're just used to this environment and have grown to like it but others really don't see the problem because of their more casual and occasional use of the DCA group?

---  The above is deliberately playing Devil's advocate for the moment ---

As for my suggestion of using an Nabble to produce a Yahoo archive, be aware that, depending on the settings on the YahooGroup simply using Nabble to create an archive of the existing Yahoo Groups may not help - particularly if one of those settings disables attachments - as that includes disabling images within posts, so while you might include them in your email or post on Nabble, by the time they came back to you having passed through the Yahoo servers, the images would be stripped out.
Greg Chapman
GregAfloat - My Boating Biography
Randonneur Randonneur
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association

In reply to this post by Chris Waite

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Chris Waite [via UK HBBR Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:
As a Solent Dinghy Cruising Association member


I have been whingeing about this over on their "Dinghy Cruising Solent" and one smart cookie said -
"Go on then, do it and see what happens"

Are there any pitfalls that anyone might care to point out to me? 
 

Been there, done it, got the T shirt.

I personally think you're on to a hiding to nothing.

I was in the same situation several years ago when I ran our cycling club Yahoo group ( I still run it - approx 200 group members).

Some one suggested we move to  a more "modern" Forum, so I went ahead and created one.
Unfortunately the majority of the members were ambivalent about the whole thing.
Whilst a very small minority saw some potential improvements, to most it was change for change sake.
They all still subscribed and read the  posts by email (who doesn't?) and the ability to post photos directly into the messages was of little appeal in general. (there are better free photo sharing sites!)
We ended up with about 10 group members, the forum withered on the vine, and is now no longer. The Yahoo group still thrives and there is little indication it will go anytime soon.

I also created a Facebook group which, I'm pleased to say, is at last starting to take off. We're now up to 50 members and there are regular daily postings and gathering 3 or 4 new members a week.
Of course posting photos is a natural and simple part of FB. It's a much more graphic oriented posting mechanism than the alternative Yahoo group, much simpler and intuitive to use, easy instant access from your smart device and always at your finger tips.
(The DCA FB group is also becoming a popular spot for those same reasons).

The success (or not) of any group is dependent on its members.
In my case, the new forum offered no significant improvement over Yahoo.
No one used the Yahoo web  interface to start with, so even with the change it was still just a tool you accessed via email.

You really need a critical mass behind any move if it is to become adopted.

Obviously YMMV but that's my experience!

Merry Christmas.

(Posting via email as usual and steering well away from both the Nabble or Yahoo web portal!)
 
PP

Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association

In reply to this post by GregHBBR
Interesting stuff. I think you will find the majority use a web browser to reply - I looked at the members list sorted by number of posts and out of the top twenty about 4 use email. Even when using my phone I always use the web interface. But horses for courses.

Greg and Pete are right, bums on seats is what counts.


Perhaps we could add a "DCA Solent" sub-forum to this site, just for some of the DCA members to experiment with. Easy and quick, done in a minute or two and easily managed. It could be deleted if we really wanted to (I think).

-Paul

Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
Port-Na-Storm Port-Na-Storm
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association

In reply to this post by Randonneur
I pretty much agree with everything that's been said already.
The pitfalls are people not technology.
I'm a member of four yahoo groups, including dinghysolent and openboat,  and although the interface is clunky it doesn't bother me that much. I get the posts via e-mail as I do with this forum.
I agree that there is a risk of causing a split, but probably a bigger risk of being ignored.

Paul, I'd rather you didn't volunteer me as an administrator, I've got enough on with the Ancient & Vulnerable amongst other things, and the DCA southern Group muddles along fine without my interference.
Incidentally the A&V have a nabble forum but no-one uses it, they also have an FB page which I can't see as I'm not a member. So it goes.
Graham
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association

In reply to this post by Paul (admin)
DCA to Nabble

I have abbreviated people’s comments and my responses below

A.  Paulie wrote:

“It's probably easier if I create it and become the owner”

– You got it Paulie

“Make it Solent only”

– I had no intention of doing anything else.

“Think about sub-forums that suit DCA Solent.  Probably ‘DCA Solent Events’ also ‘General Discussion’”

– Those I reckoned on and one other; something restricted to the boats themselves, perhaps ‘Boaty Business’.

B.  Al wrote:

“I e-mail and see no difference between Yahoo, Nabble, Facebook etc; Yahoo photos get posted in a common location”.

– That is a major part of the point, the photographs are separated from the text and secondly any ongoing threads while in chronological order are all mixed up with each other, making them much more difficult to follow.  As nobody has said anything regarding my bleat of losing the top of my reply under the headers, I assume it is something that Yahoo, Microsoft and Classic Shell have prepared specially for me alone.  Oh thanks!

C.  Greg wrote:

“Simply create your Nabble app as an archive of the Yahoo Group”

– The operative word here Gregory is ‘Simply’.  God bless you Sir, but nothing electronic is simple.  Remember text books, where there was a diagram or picture (you know, those things that used to be ‘worth a thousand words’), with a paragraph or two by way of explanation - on the SAME page.  I don’t think your solution will overcome the problem of providing text and the associated photographs in the same message, as the DCA are obliged to upload them to a separate section, though you may tell me I’m wrong.

You and I love to ‘mix it’ on the forum and I do appreciate that for you electronics, or whatever I should call the subject, is your Nirvana, but for me it is a tool and unlike my toothbrush, the cutlery in the kitchen draw and the Workmate, electronics are a minefield of half-baked partial answers that don’t actually flogging well work.  Let me give you a smattering of my ongoing deficits in this field.

YESTERDAY I wrote the numbered paragraphs below to relieve a little pent up frustration and having been mulling over whether to retain or delete it from this reply.  In the evening the cloned email at ‘2’ below started to reappear again and as of this morning I have 24 copies.  Also this morning the electronic programmer for the central heating was indicating it was ‘on’ – the boiler was glowering sootily silent in its lair and the house was freezing, but while I was in the boiler room, vaguely poking at the controls the boiler suddenly burst into life….

The other thing I have remembered is the Walkman – I bought a basic model as I do not want any fancy tosh on it.  How naive can you get?  The programme has an obsession with ‘bookmark’..ing at every press of a button.  What about just playing my bleeding music?  No chance

I assume everyone is beset by surreptitious insurgency from their electronics?

Anyway, I am leaving it all in, after all it’s only cyberspace, but THESE NUMBERED PARAGRAPHS ARE NOT COMPULSORY, even for you Greg –

1. As I write Microsoft has noticed that I have started numbering paragraphs so has kindly indented this section for me and will number on to its own entire convenience.  What if I want to decide which is a new paragraph and which is a new number?  I am pretty sure that somewhere there is a button to undo this irritating and unwanted trick, but guess what?  There are now most of a dozen different main headers, each with perhaps a score of sub-headers, each with a list of options – so perhaps a couple of hundred different places that button might be….  and guess what, if I find it the chances are that it either will not have a change default button, or even if it has the possibility of that working are moderate to negligible.  Hell, I can’t even get Windows Live Mail to swap default Calibri 11 for Arial size 12.

2. Last night I received an email from yet another Doctor Chris.  I received it once, then a few moments later twice, then three times and I believe I turned the computer off at the dozenth reiteration.

3. Yesterday I wanted to scan a picture for Grum and turned on the Wi-Fi and the scanner and my lappy.  I used to have an icon for scan, but those days are long gone, now I have to go via ‘my devices’, via control panel, via desktop assistant and open it.  Lo and behold, no underlined ‘scan an item’ phrase and somewhere several clicks and windows away, the lappy considered the scanner off line.  How do you turn something online, when it’s already online because the Wi-Fi light on it is glowing?  I went and did some shopping and when I came back the two had finally discovered each other out there in the ether.  But that’s not the end of the story.   My lappy now downloads all, but all, scans to a folder within a folder in my documents and the ‘Choose your download destination’ box has….  you guessed it, disappeared.

4. Talking of stuff, let’s get onto my father’s house.  He’s a confused 94 year-old and the house is a good sized L-shaped brick and flint structure in the Downs North of Chichester.  Broad band peters out a long way down the valley, as does any mobile signal.  So we are on a land line, added to which I have just had Avonline install a satellite internet system; that should sort it all out, but it doesn’t.

5. I can browse the web, and receive emails here but I can’t send them; why not?  Well my ISP spent some time footling around trying to ignore me, but eventually one naïve young lady admitted they were aware of the problem and were looking into it; that was September.  On the other end Avonline have probably identified the trouble as the signal from a satellite not being recognized by the servers as coming from the UK and therefore blocked on spam grounds.  I know I could have an on-line email service, but why should I – it renders my Phone/ISP Package useless, it’s an extra complication (not a simplification) and I’m not getting something I’m paying for.

6. A number of banks now refuse to undertake on-line transfers unless they can text you a code….  But there is no mobile signal here.  So much for on-line banking.

7. I could not understand why the old boy would keep phoning us up when we are at home in Arundel and failing to speak.  Since spending the festive season here I happened to be helping him with some calls and noticed that people could not hear him.   The cordless phone has a mute button, (with an unusual and miniscule speaker-muting sign on it), in the place where he normally holds it and he hits it time and time again.  He’s too old and confused to unlearn this; much of the time he even forgets to turn the handset off; he's is too deaf to hear the warning howl and as there is no other way of contacting the house, like a mobile signal for instance, we have to phone a neighbour and get them to come over, rouse the carer in the other end of the house and get the line cleared.  Not popular at four in the morning when he had taken to making calls to other elderly neighbours and the police.  Supervised calls only these days and he is NOT impressed.

8. That’s just one aspect of the phone fun.  The next thing is that the signal from the base unit, of necessity in one end of the ‘L’ does not properly reach through the eaves up at the available bedrooms in the other end.  So if it fires off and you are up there, you have to jump out of bed and stand by the window to have a conversation.

9. Similarly, the baby monitor, that is mounted by his bed, in what used to be the dining room, cannot penetrate the eaves either, so the receiver also has to be hung in a bedroom window.  In fact it is portable but has a lousy battery life and as you move around the house, it keeps going out of range depending on the intervening walls.  If it goes into a nil signal area, you need to turn both it and the baby/father base end off; then both back on again to reset the system.  Doing that involves going into a nil signal area, so you have to take the mobile bit back to the bedroom – and leave it there damn it, before you tear your hair out.  And that’s not all.  He doesn’t understand it, so expects to hear an answer when he calls for help.  If he doesn’t get a response, he presses the power button and switches it off.  He doesn’t understand that it won’t talk to him and that if you’ve gone into a room without the receiver, you won’t know he has a problem.  It’s back to phoning the neighbours, but you can’t let him do that, as he is not sufficiently reliable with the phone.

10. Buy better/stronger systems you say, but even if you could get them, you still don’t know whether they would have adequate signals; the only thing you do know is that if they were sufficiently technical to do everything required they will be too complicated for him to understand.      

11. I made my own trailer lighting board over forty years ago and I seem to remember legal or not, linked all four tail and number plate bulbs together.  All well and good, but recently Ruthie was driving behind me and noticed that the van’s left had tail light was out.  It wasn’t the bulb, I checked and the more I checked the more I found that the front side light wasn’t working either – had to be a circuit problem.  My early cars had a total of two fuses if I remember rightly and they were on the scuttle, under the bonnet – today’s Ford Transits have four fuse boxes with two rows of fuses on each side of each.  Two of them are mounted in front of the passengers feet one hiding the other; guess which one I needed to get at?  It must have taken me an hour of failing to squeeze any useful information out of the vehicle instruction manual and trying to interpret the on-line substitute, just to get to these boxes somewhere beyond the lower edge of the glove box.  Then perhaps the same again to lower the first one and identify and replace the correct fuse on the far side of the second one.  I have to assume that my obvious wiring for the lighting board was far too unsophisticated for the descendants of Henry Ford.  But who knows?

12. I suppose, partly because I am not used to having to drive a vehicle where you need to destabilize your foot by lifting your heel off the floor boards in order to release the clutch, I have stalled the van a few times now.  I am so used to old vehicles stalling and catching them still on the run to bump-start them back to life that this is a most unnerving experience.  On stalling a modern Ford, the engine and transmission lock solid – BANG – horrendous.  Hells Bells, it not only ruins my peace of mind, it can’t be doing the mechanics a bit of good.  I have discovered the reason is that it has a device to prevent it rolling back when starting on an incline  ….which only works if you have braked and clutched and stuff in the right order and the right amount of incline.  Yet another dysfunctional electronic gizmo, you can’t get rid of.

13. Stop Press – my brother has just turned up in his newish Peugeot and he’s late; why?  Because for electronic reasons it would not go into reverse.  It needed rebooting; interesting considering it’s an estate.

So, apart from a sea of trivial glitches such as ‘Explorer’ deciding it can’t be bothered to find the website you’ve asked for:
“Google?  No, no such thing”
– refresh –
“I told you, there’s no such thing as Google; do make sure you’re spelling it right”
– shut down and reopen –
“Oh Google!  Why didn’t you say so in the first place?”
....several times a day.

That is a synopsis of the ethereal wavy and wiggly end of my life.  If I had all the time I’ve spent struggling with the multitudes of half-arsed electronic concoctions I’ve come across in the last three decades, it would have served to restore HMS Victory and row her round the UK with a pair of six foot oars, single-handed by now.

I’m sick of living with this litany of electronic foibles; these things are supposed to be a clever collection of conveniences, not a continuing cluster of catastrophes.

Well strip my images

Yahoo!

CW  






Jeremy Jeremy
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association

CW, I share your frustrations.  In fact your litany of disillusionment with the way stuff works (or rather doesn't) could have almost been penned by myself.

I dread having to buy a new PC, as I know I will have to spend many hours turning off all the "useful" automatic irritations that make it dysfunctional.  FWIW, one of the things I have to turn off every time is every form or automatic formatting, checking etc tool in every bit of software, with the sole exception of spell checking.

As for the ergonomics of some gadgets, I just give up.  Last time I went to buy a replacement mobile 'phone I explained carefully that all I wanted was  a phone with buttons that normal-sized fingers could press, no camera (as my employer at the time banned them on site) and a display that could be read without the need of a magnifying glass.  I didn't need text messages, games, internet access or whatever else, all I wanted was a mobile telephone, to make and receive the occasional telephone call.  The young moron behind the counter looked at me as if I was an alien, and then said they didn't stock phones that only made 'phone calls........................

Thankfully there is one company that specialises in making simple things like this, Doro.  They had just the job, a simple phone with big buttons and a nice clear display, designed for use by normal human beings, rather than mutants with fingers the size of a thin pencil and eyesight sharper than a peregrine.
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association

Good Lord, somebody actually read my drivel!

Thank heavens for that Jeremy; one of the smartest in the class and you go so far as to agree with me.

Now all I need is a Textionary - YMMV and FWIW?
 
Y-our M-other M-utilates V-oles?  F-rosted W-hite I-ncendiary W-hippets?

I'm trying, but the Christmas blur is too dense

And I can't make it out

CW


GregHBBR GregHBBR
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association

In reply to this post by Chris Waite
Hi Chris,
Chris Waite wrote
I don’t think your solution will overcome the problem of providing text and the associated photographs in the same message, as the DCA are obliged to upload them to a separate section, though you may tell me I’m wrong.
No I won't say you are wrong. It happens that way simply because the list owner either likes things that way or needs to be told how to set his list to allow images within posts.

You must realise that a YahooGroup is essentially a mail list archive and not a forum. He may well be like most users here and never look at Yahoo's site and do everything by email and not be interested in pictures - only words. Such people will find such Yahoo settings make total sense and owrk in exactly the same way as everything else they do elsewhere. They will be used to sharing photos by providing links to the stuff they've uploaded to their Flickr, Photobucket, or other photo sharing sites.

So this is, in essence, a "political" issue not a technical one. You need to persuade the current owner of the group that his current way of doing things is wrong. If he doesn't agree then, and only then, should you start your revolution by starting an alternative group. You'll soon find out whether you are in a minority or not - and that may well be a significant minority!
You and I love to ‘mix it’ on the forum and I do appreciate that for you electronics, or whatever I should call the subject, is your Nirvana,
Indeed it is horses for courses. I'm one of those who likes to sail rather than build, so in may ways I'm just left deeply amused at all the conversations here. They are the conversations of incredibly skilled craftsmen. At one level I am in awe, but at another I find it quite ridiculous that there should be such concern for the quality of the finish of a bit of paintwork or varnish when, after a couple of trips to the water, it's suffer all the wear and tear of normal usage.
Let me give you a smattering of my ongoing deficits in this field.
No! Please not! It's not the place for all that stuff!

(But I am happy to help where I can with computing things off-list. Email me!)
Greg Chapman
GregAfloat - My Boating Biography
Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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In reply to this post by Chris Waite
For What Its Worth the anachnisms are worth learning.

Do you remember the LEM? the Lunar Excursion Vehicle from Apollo 11.

NASA sensibly chose a limit for TLAs, Three Letter Anachronisms. 

MEB Main Engine Burn is straight to the point. But Your Mileage May Vary is not what an astronaut wants to hear inside the CSM.

Paul

CSM: Command/Service Module. 

Sent from Samsung Mobile
Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
Jeremy Jeremy
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association

In reply to this post by Chris Waite
For What It's Worth (the damned abbreviation virus seems to have infected me as well).

Being moderately serious, I can commend the Doro stuff.  They really do make the effort to provide things that do just want you want (like make a telephone call) without having to to endure hours of trying to work through an instruction manual written by someone who clearly doesn't understand the need to make instructions understandable by someone with little or no knowledge of their product.

I'm currently struggling with making the leap into the muddied waters of tablets (the electronic kind, rather than those my GP insists I take daily to prolong my life).  All of the review web sites seem to assume that their readers will already understand the basics about these things, which from my perspective makes them hard work, as I keep having to revert to various on-line dictionaries/encyclopaedias in order to be able to grasp even one tenth of what the reviewer is trying to convey.
inwe inwe
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association

Has Gregg and others forgotten the title? The clue is in the title    -HBBR - !!!!!!

Richard
GregHBBR GregHBBR
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Hi Richard,
inwe wrote
Has Greg [edited spelling!] and others forgotten the title? The clue is in the title    -HBBR - !!!!!!
Not forgotten it, but rather expected that once having built it you'd sail it, not build another, and another and another.

There are too many other things to do in live that get in the way of sailing and building an unnecessary number of boats is one of them.
Greg Chapman
GregAfloat - My Boating Biography
Port-Na-Storm Port-Na-Storm
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GregHBBR wrote
There are too many other things to do in live that get in the way of sailing and building an unnecessary number of boats is one of them.
Greg. I think you need to spend some time on the naughty step, reconsidering your priorities.
😄
Anyone other than Richard actually building a boat right now?
Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Nabble for the Dinghy Cruising Association

Port-Na-Storm wrote
GregHBBR wrote
There are too many other things to do in live that get in the way of sailing and building an unnecessary number of boats is one of them.
Greg. I think you need to spend some time on the naughty step, reconsidering your priorities.
😄
Anyone other than Richard actually building a boat right now?
Yep - Working on MilliBee whenever the weather and my achy back lets me. Some creative chisel work today to embed a hinge...assuming Screwfix's Next Day pickup at the local store works.

I really enjoy chisel work and find it relaxing. Marples' chisels of course, which I bought second hand from a retired woodworker who maintained book cases and shelves in the local libraries. They rarely need sharpening - good quality steel and a great feel. Highly recommended.

-Paul

Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
LASER41420 LASER41420
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Hi,
Me too, building the row canoe for next years Thames trip.
Have to confess I am really a summer sailor, usually around
late march to late september.
Steve
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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In reply to this post by GregHBBR
The thing is Greg

That as I perch on the pew of my latest creation, slicing through the water, it comes to me that maybe she would benefit from....    and perhaps a little tweak to....    and if she was a bit deeper in the....    or what if....    and before I know it, there is yet another questionable craft, swilling around my mind like a rat in bilge-water.

"Time and ply waits for no man"?  No that's wrong

How about, "Men at ply"?

Or "Time plies"?

C-Dog

 
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