Trailer/Trolley Parts

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Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Trailer/Trolley Parts

OK Chaps

Do we do this under 'Trailer Corner', or under 'For Sale/Wanted/Recycling'?  I need to renovate the trailer/trolley system for 'Polly Wee', so I need some new Indespension units and some stainless trolley (stub?) axle tube, for starters; then maybe a jockey wheel for each....

Talk to me of sources?

Thanks for your input

CW  
Jeremy Jeremy
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

The last lot of suspension units, hitch, etc I bought I got from Towsure in Southampton.  Having bought what can only be described as crap trailer parts online in the past, I found being able to drive down to a real shop and look at the bits before buying them an advantage.  The only words of caution I'd throw in are that the Towsure suspension units have different hole patterns to the Indispension ones, and as they come the paint on them is useless - they need rubbing down and decent coat of paint before use.  Reasonably well priced though, around midway between the cheap (and fairly useless) stuff from some of the online stores and the high priced (but pretty good) stuff from Indispension.
Port-Na-Storm Port-Na-Storm
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

As Jeremy Says
Towsure are pretty good and have a good website Towsure

or this lot seem to have everything you could ever need. TrailerTec
You pays your money...........
simplesimon simplesimon
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

In reply to this post by Jeremy
Jeremy wrote
The only words of caution I'd throw in are that the Towsure suspension units have different hole patterns to the Indispension ones
Old Flexitor units also have a different hole pattern from Indespension. I don't know whether the Towsure ones are a replacement for them. It's always easier to buy something that fits rather than move the holes (say he who moved the holes on one of the Centre trailers ...)

If you need units to fit Indespension holes why not buy from Indespension? They do mail order as well as having a number of shops.

Simon

PS More practically- what is the hole layout you need to match?  We can all run rulers over our trailers and maybe identify a make to fit!


Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

Thanks for this Chaps

You over-estimate my current situation.  The present trailer is of sufficient vintage that it precedes all rubbospension units in favour of little coil springs controlling arms from stub axles working in tubes.

Closer inspection reveals that these are seized solid - and probably have been for several centuries.  Thank heavens for pneumatic tyres, which it does actually boast, otherwise all my more recent inventions would have been smashed to smithereens before ever reaching the water.

So there is not only choice of hole pattern, but a dab or two of weld to undertake first.

....and so to the TROLLEY stainless stub axle tubing?

I see Towsure are also in St Deny's, so I could snap up a couple of units while on the raid round to Grum's Ancient & Venerable.

They'd make good ballast for the voyage home
 
Chris W
Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

Chris,

You are welcome to the suspension units from MilliBee's original trailer, rated at 500kg I think for bog standard wheels. They were from Towsure who sell matching plates for a few quid that the units bolt onto, to weld onto an existing trailer. You can also have the 2x2 axle which might be handy. The whole lot is surplus to requirements, has seen a few dunkings in the briny but the bearings are replaceable.

I'll trade them for some stainless axle if you can find it.

cheers
Paul
Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

Thanks for this Paulie

But as 'Polly Wee' on her trailer weighs perhaps a third of this and I'm hoping a new set of rollybits will last a long time, I'll forego your offer.

Stainless trolley axle - I've been doing a little more research and the right tube seems hard to find, but 1" 316 bar is moderately affordable:

http://www.metals4u.co.uk/Stainless-Steel-Round-Bar/1-Diameter-316/83/1191/detail.asp

Or it would be possible to go for:

http://www.ibisailing.co.uk/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=14&products_id=1286&osCsid=j0r45onjls1efvi8ol8k7bmqi5

I'd need to check this last, unless anyone knows better?

CW
Jeremy Jeremy
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

If it's just for a launching trolley, then 16g wall thickness stainless tube should do OK.  I take it the wheels have 1" axle holes?  If so, then look at using something like this: http://www.metals4u.co.uk/Stainless-Steel-Tube/1-od-x-1.5mm-304-Satin-Polished-Tube/85/3040/detail.asp  Not the cheapest supplier, but at least they let you buy short lengths.  You can get it a fair bit cheaper on ebay (like half the price of Metals4U).  For example, see this seller: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-OD-X-16-SWG-DULL-POLISHED-316L-STAINLESS-STEEL-TUBE-/320630951556?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aa7180e84

If you want to bolt through it to secure it to the trolley, then ram a tight fitting hardwood dowel up the inside of the stainless tube to stop the bolts crushing the tube, or better still drill a 1" hole in a block of hardwood, slide the axle in and bolt right through the lot.
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

I'm glad we have your brains to pick Jeremy

I thought I saw somewhere that to support even a dinghy (call it 150 kg.-ish), the tube wall needed to be at least 3 mm. ??

I do already have the drilled out hardwood bit and I like the idea of a dowel down the inside.

Would discourage crumpling under load

CW
Paul (admin) Paul (admin)
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

In reply to this post by Jeremy
Jeremy, Chris,

Thanks for the links. If I was to build a launch trolley for MilliBee - she might be 200 Kg including ballast so would 1.5mm tube be strong enough?

The trailer is new and with the bilge keels removed she might winch ok directly onto the trailer with the wheels out of the water, so we'll see how it goes this year.  

If a trolley is needed it could slide around and under the rollers so that when winching the weight is transferred from trolley to trailer. The main benefit would be to keep the trailer out of the water, but the trolley might help winching onto the trailer - some sort of guidance for a meter or two that helps with strong cross tides and winds (we've all been there!).

-Paul
Say NO to Brexit. Kick it into the long grass
Jeremy Jeremy
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

The only risk with tube is that it might cripple (i.e. crush like a tin can) if presented with an excessive bending load.  

If you make sure that the trolley wheel hub is fairly close to the point where the tube is supported, say closer than around 25, then the load that a single wheel would take before a 1" x 16 316 stainless steel tube cripples in bending would be over 1000kg.  Supporting 200kg on two wheels would be no problem at all, the reserve would be over 10.  If the unsupported length of axle sticking out between the support and the inside of the wheel hub is longer, say 50mm, then the ultimate load per wheel before the tube cripples in bending reduces to about 500kg, still more than enough (the reserve needs to be around 4 for something like this, to allow for shock loads from bumps, or all the boat weight bearing on one wheel).
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

Well Jeremy

It's only taken some four months, but I've finally got around to producing a 'beam' axle and here's how one of your stub axles looks fixed in place:



Single bolted at the inner end and U-bolted at the outer, to avoid holes weakening the point of maximum stress.  The beam is made out of two pieces of Travis Perkins best deal (softwood), formed in an 'L' cross section, screwed and epoxied with an extra bolt at each end to encourage the parts to remain in close proximity.

Well it'll prove a point, even if steel or hardwood might have been better.  I've done the stepping on gingerly and eventually jumping up and down stress test and all went well, with only the tyres flexing obligingly....

Ready to hit the beach, rocking and rolling

So thanks again

CW
Chris Waite Chris Waite
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

I should have said

The picture shows the assembly upside down, for clarity.

The stub axle will protrude from under the wood in use

Chris
 
simplesimon simplesimon
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

Chris
There's going to be quite a lot of tensile stress (pulling down (up in your pic)) on that inner bolt. (Think see-saw)

I suggest big washers both ends, alternatively a U-bolt, also with big washers.

Simon
Jeremy Jeremy
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

Neat job, Chris.

No need to worry about the tensile stress on that bolt, it's massively over-sized for the load.  The lever arm around the U bolt is around 1:2 or more, I think (centre of wheel applied load to U bolt, U bolt to end bolt), so if you put 500kg on a single wheel then the tensile load in the 6mm bolt would only be 250kg, which is well within its safe tensile working load of around 500kg.  Tensile failure of that bolt would need a load on a single wheel of around 1 1/4 tonne, so about 2 1/2 tonnes total trailer weight.

Add a washer wouldn't change this, as the limiting stress is the tensile stress at the root of the bolt thread, rather than the bearing stress on the tube.
CPVH CPVH
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

Hi everybody, I am hoping it's ok to revive this thread.

I have been acting as management consultant on the restoration of my daughter's Marine Ply Mirror which was successfully named and launched last week. (her uncle did most of the (brilliant) work)  The boat and trailer are now in pretty fine fettle, but the (cheap and nasty) trolley is in need of some repairs/upgrading.........

I have had a look at some other trolleys, and these seem to fall into two categories.......

Butch square angle with welded on stub axles with a flange for the inside of the wheels to sit against, or cheap, or  nasty round section bolt together (and ours is one of the cheapest & nastiest which only has split pin/washer/wheel/washer/split pin on each end of a tube axle rather than the rigid flange (which means the wheels tend to flop around and rub on the nice new finish of the boat)).

I wonder if it would be possible to buy some of the stub axles (not proper trailer type with bearings, just butcher than the present arrangement), and weld (or ideally bolt these onto the existing tubing (Ideally the inbord end of the stub axle would be fat enough diameter to slip over the existing 25mm tubing, and then it's outboard end would be 25mm.

Do such stub axles exist for sale (galvanised mild steel would be good enough/expensive enough)?  and if so, what phrase should I be Googling for?
momist momist
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

Ho Hum.  It always seems to be the axles that pose the problem.  I don't use a trolley myself, and have never tried to build/remake one, but I was struggling to add wheels to my own little boat.  I use a board of wood, with wheels mounted on it, which attaches to the bottom of the boat.  I can then wheel the boat as if it was a very large wheel barrow.  I'm not suggesting for a moment that this would work on a mirror - I would suggest it wouldn't.  However, when looking to get better wheels for mine, I found that largest industrial solid nylon casters came with their own galvanised steel bolts as axles, with no bearings other than the nylon on steel.  The bolts pass through two flanges of a bracket that I bolted to the wood, however, they could be taken off the brackets, and the bolts used to put them on some other arrangement.  Or maybe the bracket can be used to attach to the trolley instead of an axle.  Could that be an answer?

Mine came from Atlas handling, fixed wheel mounted directly below a U shaped bracket with no castor angle or swivel.  I believe they are used on industrial sized wheelie bins, like you see behind restaurants.  Similar ones here:  http://www.atlashandlinguk.co.uk/Fixed_castor_200mm_wheel_diameter_upto_350kg_capacity--product--332.html

The web site has a chat facility, and they can sort out alternatives.  Good to deal with.
Port-Na-Storm Port-Na-Storm
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

A decent trolley can make a big difference to the ease of launch and recovery, and the enjoyment of the boat.
A lot of people seem to struggle with all sorts of cobbled together bits of plank and wobbly wheels.

If the boat and your daughter are worth it  you could invest in one of these. http://www.tridentuk.com/gb/trident-mirror-dinghy-launching-trolley-sailing-trtra115ltm.html

If required you could also fit a front castor wheel which the very helpful people at Trident can supply.

The pneumatic tyres are great for bumpy ground but the problem is they have enough buoyancy to float the trailer, making recovery a bit awkward at times when the trailer is floating off in one direction and the boat is going the other way. I'm sure Trident would swap them for the solid sand tyres.
CPVH CPVH
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Re: Trailer/Trolley Parts

Thanks for the replies Guys,

I think i'm going to go for a combination........

Having already had a look at the trolleys (too expensive for me just now, and not homebrew enough) at Trident, I did pick up some ideas I could steal......

Thean I had a look at (Momist's??) beam axle, and decided that rather than getting some additional parts made up in steel, I could build a beam axle and stub axle to replace the existing single tube axle.

My main concern now though, is how to get the wheels to behave a little better.  I was wondering about replacing the inner split pins with a length of stud with half a dozen nuts each side of the axle (so all you see is a stack of nuts above and below the axle).  Hope that description makes sense!

Thanks again.

Chris
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